Ramadan Mubarak

[Robbo]

*snip*

Having read all of that and watched parts 1 and 2 of the video, I find it rather odd.

You can say the animal "submits to the will of god", but in reality you're just being 'nice to it' before you hold it down and cut its throat. Telling yourself god has anything to do with it just because you fancy a lamb chop is a bit silly to say the least.

Is there some concrete evidence that it doesn't feel anything, the sheep seemed to die quickly but it struggled at first. I suppose a few seconds of pain could be considered okay depending on your view.

 

[Twirlywoos]

Who said that the animal submits to will of God? That's wrong. You make the sacrifice in the name of God that is all. Nothing more and nothing less. If that animal had a choice it would choose to live and raise a family and become a grandparent.

 

[estebanrey]

It doesnt take mind reader to know your anti religion viewpoint considering you bang on about it all the time

I think you're mixing me up with someone else mate. I've never started a single thread on religion and have only ever talked about it in threads specifically on the subject so I don't know where you get this idea that I "bang on about it all the time from"

If i remember correctly it was you who was asking a mod to close the thread!

Not quite, I said "might as well close the thread" which is true given half the posts here are people like you moaning about it's content.

What I'm not doing is telling me what they can or can't write here and trying to second guess and analyze people's posts.

So yes i think you should seek councilling regarding your irrational hate towards religion, proven by the fact you cant stay away from the thread, posting garbage.

You can't keep replying to me and then say I can't stay away from this thread because clearly you're doing the same thing.

I know you want this to be a Muslim only, no questions I don't like kind of thing but that's not how a discussion forum works. If you want to silence people and stop them asking reasonable questions I suggest you buy your own forum where you can do what you like.

 

[Richdog]

I think you're mixing me up with someone else mate. I've never started a single thread on religion and have only ever talked about it in threads specifically on the subject so I don't know where you get this idea that I "bang on about it all the time from"



Not quite, I said "might as well close the thread" which is true given half the posts here are people like you moaning about it's content.

What I'm not doing is telling me what they can or can't write here and trying to second guess and analyze people's posts.

You can't keep replying to me and then say I can't stay away from this thread because clearly you're doing the same thing.

I know you want this to be a Muslim only, no questions I don't like kind of thing but that's not how a discussion forum works. If you want to silence people and stop them asking reasonable questions I suggest you buy your own forum where you can do what you like.

Craterloads is rather amusing, read the thread on circumcision. I really wouldn't bother wasting too much time rationalising his posts.

 

[estebanrey]

Craterloads is rather amusing, read the thread on circumcision. I really wouldn't bother wasting too much time rationalising his posts.

Noted, I'll admit I am guilty of granting too many people here with intelligence who despite post after post have proved the contrary.

 

[Robbo]

Craterloads is rather amusing, read the thread on circumcision. I really wouldn't bother wasting too much time rationalising his posts.

Some of that was comedy gold though to be fair.

 

[Richdog]

Some of that was comedy gold though to be fair.

Agree 100%, hilarious to read , but not the kind of stuff you worry about trying to actually rationalise or worry about after a while.

 

[The Geezer]

WOW !

The OP wishes the followers of his faith a Happy Ramadan and the topic gets a complete derailment.

12 pages in and it's still open

 

[Richdog]

WOW !

The OP wishes the followers of his faith a Happy Ramadan and the topic gets a complete derailment.

12 pages in and it's still open

You have been a member for 2 years, and that still surprises you?

ANY religious (or even any remotely contentious subject) thread will be derailed, this is as certain as death or taxes, and the people who post them should know this before they click the submit button.

 

[Yas786]

WOW !

The OP wishes the followers of his faith a Happy Ramadan and the topic gets a complete derailment.

12 pages in and it's still open

In all the years I have been here, it's par for the course in here. So a lot of this ridiculing from certain members is nothing new in all honesty. That's why I keep out of these Islamic threads as they invariably get trashed by certain muppets in here.

On another note, i see that Cheets64 has been perma'd...wonder what he said that finally got him the boot.

 

[The Geezer]

I suppose my surprise is the Mods have let it get to 12 pages, I was looking at more like 3 maybe 5 max.

 

[Robbo]

On another note, i see that Cheets64 has been perma'd...wonder what he said that finally got him the boot.

 

[e36Adz]

I would suggest that your view is seriously delusional. Does the animal have access to BabelFish? What if they recited some a nursery rhyme over the animal, would it be absolutely terrified at the prospect and act of having its throat slit?

The whole idea of Halal and Kosher is yet another example of the unhinged nature of many religious beliefs, right up there alongside the idea that a few priestly words miraculously transform bread and cheap plonk into the body and blood of Christ (transubstantiation) - certifiable nonsense. A significant difference is that the Catholic ritual doesn't involve slaughter.

Faith in God comes from the heart, not just from reciting the words. This ultimately comes down to the belief in God, which it seems you lack. That's the only reason why we do not eat pork. Belief in God, and following His laws. We could keep going round and round in circles but there wouldn't be much point. I mean you saw the video I assume, and you saw for yourself the animals at ease and not moving. Show me one such video where they are anything like that in a slaughterhouse.

Having read all of that and watched parts 1 and 2 of the video, I find it rather odd.

You can say the animal "submits to the will of god", but in reality you're just being 'nice to it' before you hold it down and cut its throat. Telling yourself god has anything to do with it just because you fancy a lamb chop is a bit silly to say the least.

Is there some concrete evidence that it doesn't feel anything, the sheep seemed to die quickly but it struggled at first. I suppose a few seconds of pain could be considered okay depending on your view.

The brothers in the video were due to be making another part to the video where they actually monitor the animals heart rate and other things to see what sort of (if any) stress or discomfort the animal is under. I also remember reading an article where, I think it was a German scientist conducted several tests and concluded the Islamic/Jewish way of slaughter was the most humane. It was quite a long time ago I will try find it.

Being nice as you said though to the animal is an important requirement, we are instructed to treat them with respect all through their life but as I said, we are permitted to eat meat and in one way or another for the most of us, meat ends up on our plate. Most people probably couldn't care less how it got there but it is something Muslims should take very seriously.

In the end it just comes down to the belief in God.

Who said that the animal submits to will of God? That's wrong. You make the sacrifice in the name of God that is all. Nothing more and nothing less. If that animal had a choice it would choose to live and raise a family and become a grandparent.

"Do you not realise that everything in the heavens and earth prostrates/submits to Allah: the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, and the animals? And a great number among mankind, though for many others punishment is well deserved. And such as Allah shall disgrace,- None can raise to honour: for Allah carries out all that He wills. " (Qur'an 22:18)

 

[T345]

snip

Question to my Muslim brother:
Have you ever questioned religion or Allah in general?
Thanks
Bakht

 

[Cosimo]

On another note, i see that Cheets64 has been perma'd...wonder what he said that finally got him the boot.

I guess it wasn't very religious, still he's got to meet his maker.

 

[estebanrey]

That's the only reason why we do not eat pork.

I thought it because back then pigs mainly ate waste products and as a result eating them often caused disease. They also had a habit of doing their business in clean water supplies contaminating the drinking water (which were few and far between in the Middle East at the time) so discouraging people from eating and farming pigs was essential to public health and hence why it made it into the Torah (and then subsequently the Bible and the Koran).

It was more like a public information kind of thing and was sensible advice at the time.

 

[e36Adz]

Question to my Muslim brother:
Have you ever questioned religion or Allah in general?
Thanks
Bakht

I have never needed to question my actual belief in a God, since that has always been with me as though it is in built. However, I was certainly questioning why I was doing certain things and why I was told to do this and that, whether this religion I was born into is the right one, whether the 'sect' within Islam is right etc and it all led me to actual read up on my religion. I am still learning to this day, I don't think as Muslims we ever stop learning about our faith. My position today is slightly different to where I was say 7-8 years ago, and maybe in 7-8 years time it will be different again, but I will go to my grave knowing that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammed pbuh is His messenger.

 

[Twirlywoos]

Question to my Muslim brother:
Have you ever questioned religion or Allah in general?
Thanks
Bakht

Yes very critically too and whilst there is no scientific evidence for God's existence I do believe in creationism and purpose. The only thing that Islam has done is pulled the trump card and stated that the Prophet Mohammed is the seal of the prophets and that none shall come after him, so to follow him.

The only beef I have is with Muslims and the cultural infection they bring into religion. They make Islam seem like it's a bed of roses where that is only superficial and deep down Muslims are prejudice and two faced with some of their beliefs. Well the ones I have met are and these are Imams too.

I don't just blindly follow religion or pull out contexts from the Quran when it's not fitting for the context of an argument. Otherwise Internet scholars are ten a penny in this day and age.

 

[e36Adz]

I thought it because back then pigs mainly ate waste products and as a result eating them often caused disease. They also had a habit of doing their business in clean water supplies contaminating the drinking water (which were few and far between in the Middle East at the time) so discouraging people from eating and farming pigs was essential to public health and hence why it made it into the Torah (and then subsequently the Bible and the Koran).

It was more like a public information kind of thing and was sensible advice at the time.

You are just underlying some reasons why not eating pork may have been beneficial, but even if all that was not the case and all the reasons were unknown, it still comes down to the belief in God, whose law we regard as the highest law.

 

[1mm3]

Belated Ramadan Mubarak!