Ramadan Mubarak

Twirlywoos · 27 Jul 2012 at 00:22

B&W said:
hmm I dont read namaz can I still rinse my mouth? I do sometimes anyway but is it allowed.

I don't think you can, but best asking an Imam or one of those Islamic forums anonymously.

trigger-happy · 27 Jul 2012 at 00:30

Wudu is obviously permitted lol or you wont be able to perform your prayers. Its allowed as long as you don't purposely swallow the water. If you do it by accident that's ok, the fist day of fasting I actually forgot i was fasting and I drank a glass of water (out of habit), as anyone would do I quickly googled my problem and I actually did not break my fast because it was a genuine accident and I had no intentions to break my fast.

Gackt · 27 Jul 2012 at 01:11

manoz said:
Ramadhan Mubarak to all. I was ill for the first few days so started a couple of days ago. Got the first 3 weeks off work so am sleepin most of it off. Cheeting I know lol but working in a food place, its bloody hard, especially in this weather with hot cooking equipment and food everywhere.

Did you book that holiday time off yourself, or was it given on religious grounds?

manoz · 27 Jul 2012 at 01:28

Gackt said:
Did you book that holiday time off yourself, or was it given on religious grounds?

I was getting my yearly holiday pay automatically so had to take the time off, the timing with Ramadhan was coincidental really. My manager had been asking me to take time off for a while though since I ain't really been in too good of a mood since my bro died

e36Adz · 27 Jul 2012 at 02:08

Heres the article I was referring too:

http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/printhalalstudy.htm

Also worth a read:

http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm

I knew it was only a matter of time before the whole HMC/HFA argument pops up but seriously, without following what your imam has said, just think for a second. If meat is being pumped full of water and treated with protein powder (in particular - pork), if the animals are pumped with hormones and drugs, kept in cages and a totally non halaal environment, is the issue of how they are slaughtered that important?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-beef-pork-products-sold-UK-restaurants.html

It's the first link that came up in google but it was highlighted on a documentary I saw where they actually tested meat randomly from HALAL and non halal shops and found it to contain pork, this is meat that was being sold as beef or chicken. Now unless you see the animals born, raised and halaaled yourself with your own eyes, you have little chance it is actually halaal, that's the reality.

B&W · 27 Jul 2012 at 02:12

Damn thats bad, so how do I know if my local butchers choosa is real or fake?

Craterloads · 27 Jul 2012 at 04:09

e36Adz said:
It's the first link that came up in google but it was highlighted on a documentary I saw where they actually tested meat randomly from HALAL and non halal shops and found it to contain pork, this is meat that was being sold as beef or chicken. Now unless you see the animals born, raised and halaaled yourself with your own eyes, you have little chance it is actually halaal, that's the reality.

Ultimately it comes down to your intentions. I have been told if you do not 100% know for a fact that a product is haram you are not to claim otherwise as it would damage said business. The onus is on the seller and if he claims the meat/product is halal, the punishement is on his head if it turns out otherwise.

You are even allowed to assume the product/meat is halal if it is being sold by a muslim, without even asking, ofcoarse that doesnt apply to alcohal and such and if you all ready know something is haram

My brother was discussing with us a couple of months back, if i remember correctly your are allowed to eat meat and assume its halal from any abrahamic country. For example you could go to Italy and eat the meat and assume the meat is halal without asking as thier religion requires them to also butcher meat in the name of god/allah. We got into a bit of debate and argument as some pointed out a lot of these countries are no longer ones of faith, and we know most of the meat is not butchered according to the old ways. anyhow complicated subject to say the least.

B&W · 27 Jul 2012 at 04:15

Aint fasted today had all the time too aswell, dunno y im so unreligious thesedays..

Craterloads · 27 Jul 2012 at 04:53

B&W said:
Aint fasted today had all the time too aswell, dunno y im so unreligious thesedays..

Everyone goes through it, shamefully a couple of years ago i used to pretend i was fasting at home whilst sneakly eating/smoking in my bedroom lol

Maybe you should do umra or hajj, its what got me into to praying and practicing?

RDM · 27 Jul 2012 at 07:14

Craterloads said:
For example you could go to Italy and eat the meat and assume the meat is halal without asking as thier religion requires them to also butcher meat in the name of god/allah.

Italy is a Christian country and Christianity does not do ritual slaughter so I am not sure why you would even assume it?

Castiel · 27 Jul 2012 at 07:18

RDM said:
Italy is a Christian country and Christianity does not do ritual slaughter so I am not sure why you would even assume it?

I was wondering this as well......Italy is a fairly pious Catholic country and Catholicism doesn't have the same strictures on ritual slaughter as Islam or Judaism. Unless he counts saying Grace before eating, but I can't see a Muslim saying 'For what we are about to recieve......', can you?

Craterloads · 27 Jul 2012 at 07:29

RDM said:
Italy is a Christian country and Christianity does not do ritual slaughter so I am not sure why you would even assume it?

i may have the reasons mixed up, ill have ask him but im sure he used italy as a example. how they butcher is probaby where ive mixed up what said. have christians never done ritual slaughter, even in the early days?

RDM · 27 Jul 2012 at 08:20

Craterloads said:
i may have the reasons mixed up, ill have ask him but im sure he used italy as a example. how they butcher is probaby where ive mixed up what said. have christians never done ritual slaughter, even in the early days?

The Italian meat industry isn't exactly known for it's high standards of animal wellfare and they butcher in pretty much the same way as the UK. They are also quite famous for their pork products (ham, salami, etc).

Whilst not exactly sure I would assume that early Christianity practiced as it extricated itself from Judaism but I think there are a couple of passages in the New Testament that are actually against ritual slaughter.

Craterloads · 27 Jul 2012 at 08:27

RDM said:
The Italian meat industry isn't exactly known for it's high standards of animal wellfare and they butcher in pretty much the same way as the UK. They are also quite famous for their pork products (ham, salami, etc).

Whilst not exactly sure I would assume that early Christianity practiced as it extricated itself from Judaism but I think there are a couple of passages in the New Testament that are actually against ritual slaughter.

Like i said im not sure the reason, but thats what was our debate against what he was saying. Like you said the current industry is not how it use to be.

He sent me an email about it which i deleted, ive asked him to resend it and ill post it up.

RDM · 27 Jul 2012 at 08:32

Craterloads said:
Like i said im not sure the reason, but thats what was our debate against what he was saying. Like you said the current industry is not how it use to be.

Indeed, it is probably much better than it used to be, much like most of the UK meat industry is much better than it used to be. However there will have been little or no chance of prayers being said over an animal at slaughter for hundreds of years at the very least.

I can honestly see no reason as to why you would think Italian meat is OK yet British meat is not just because Italy is a Catholic country. It would be like thinking meat from the Republic of Ireland is OK despite them having almost identical animal wellfare laws to us.

Craterloads · 27 Jul 2012 at 08:40

RDM said:
Indeed, it is probably much better than it used to be, much like most of the UK meat industry is much better than it used to be. However there will have been little or no chance of prayers being said over an animal at slaughter for hundreds of years at the very least.

I can honestly see no reason as to why you would think Italian meat is OK yet British meat is not just because Italy is a Catholic country. It would be like thinking meat from the Republic of Ireland is OK despite them having almost identical animal wellfare laws to us.

Oh forgot to mention it was something to do with being in a foreign country. Spain was also mentioned i think, and the UK.

It was complicated, and i shouldnt really comment as i wasnt really paying attention at the time. As you suggested Christianity is derived from judaism so its probable that meat was slaughtered in gods name.

!bluetonic! · 27 Jul 2012 at 08:50

Any Muslims in the Arctic or Antarctica?

24 hours sun or 24 hours darkness.

Salaam alaykum.

RDM · 27 Jul 2012 at 09:01

Craterloads said:
Oh forgot to mention it was something to do with being in a foreign country. Spain was also mentioned i think, and the UK.

It was complicated, and i shouldnt really comment as i wasnt really paying attention at the time. As you suggested Christianity is derived from judaism so its probable that meat was slaughtered in gods name.

I am not suggesting that Christianity is derived from Judaism as it is pretty much recorded fact. Much like Islam is derived from Judaism and Christianity. So I would think it certainly possible that whilst Christianity was codifying it's own rituals and canon it would borrow heavily from the Jewish faith that inspired it. However, as I said earlier, I believe is at least one passage in the New Testament that could be used to argue against ritual slaughter so how long it was practised (if at all) is a question for someone much more versed in Christian history than I.

Twirlywoos · 27 Jul 2012 at 09:03

B&W said:
Damn thats bad, so how do I know if my local butchers choosa is real or fake?

go to the hmc website and they will list accredited butchers based on regional areas. The list is very extensive and there are plenty in Birmingham.

If your local butcher carries a certificate which isn't listed on the website then they have faked it, but a quick call to hmc who are very friendly will bring you up to speed on that particular butcher. Any butcher who falsifies their accreditation is not trustworthy in my eyes, hence why when I found out Manchester Superstores faked theirs I stopped using them. If they lie about one thing then what else are they hiding? Very Un-Islamic practise too.

zpos · 27 Jul 2012 at 09:05

Castiel said:
I was wondering this as well......Italy is a fairly pious Catholic country and Catholicism doesn't have the same strictures on ritual slaughter as Islam or Judaism. Unless he counts saying Grace before eating, but I can't see a Muslim saying 'For what we are about to recieve......', can you?

Actually there are specific recitals before eating and a specific one at the time of opening a fast which translates as:

"O Allah, I have fasted for You and from the sustenance given by You, I break the fast".