Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

[g67575]

It looks like the 13700 is basically a cheaper 12900KS in terms of performance (or very similar):

https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2022/09/RAPTOR-LAKE-PASSMARK.png

I think one of the issues with the 13th gen, is that people with a 12700K or 12900K aren't going to see much benefit in performance, unless they buy the super expensive 13900K or 13900KS... But the 13700 looks like a good option for anyone who definitely wants to build an Intel system.

 

[g67575]

I think that's a good deal, i9 performance from last gen in an i7 this gen. Probably won't be much cheaper £ for £ vs the old generation but the current economic mess isn't Intel's fault.

It is there fault that they won't release the 13700 and other locked CPUs, until Q1 2023.

I'm curious what impact that might have on AMD's Zen 4 prices.

 

[g67575]

G.Skill also just released a 6800 c32 kit and Teamgroup have a 7200 kit on an american retailers site, both will be A-die

Very nice. Assuming 8000MT/s RAM is stable, could be a very worthy upgrade for many.

These use the SK Hynix A-die ICs, I assume? Do we know what voltage they need for 7200 MT/s?

 

[g67575]

I doubt it somehow. Samsung I think predicted higher end modules in 2025. with 7000MT/s+ by the end of 2023.

 

[g67575]

it's more than a 10 percent increase.

12700K msrp + 10 percent = £413.80

inc 20 percent VAT = £496.56

Those prices look a little high, maybe other shops will sell them for a bit less?

It does look like the 7700X will be going up against the 13700 (non K).

 

[g67575]

@Joxeon

The 12600K + DDR5 is more than 10 precent around 6 percent behind the 7600X in minimum framerate (on average):

So, I don't expect miracles for the 13600K. The boost clock rate is only around 4 percent higher than the boost clock of the 12900K (4.9ghz).

Also, the locked 13600 is based on the same core technology as Alder Lake, aka Oldman Lake.

 

[g67575]

I can only guess that Intel's production costs are higher for their 10nm process / Intel 7, in 2022.

Meanwhile, relative to the rather high $450 launch price for an 8 core Zen 3 CPU, the prices have come down a bit, to $400 for Zen 4. With the price for 6 cores remaining the same.

Still gonna need 8 P cores to compete with zen 4 in games

 

[g67575]

i meant to write some 'more' - a few sometimes do Civ6 only, that'd be like doing a video card review on PDX + civ6 games and including one graphically demanding game - quite unhelpful. I get that they need to do it for the crowds that'll click their video, but everyone knows those games are GPU bound and a new cpu might bring a couple of % better at most, yet for the games i'm talking about, the new CPU generations actually have a nice impact.

AMD Zen 4 Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 7950X Review - OC3D

Watch Dogs Legion The best of the Watch Dogs games, even if it does suffer from all the Ubisoft tropes, itâs a fantastic looking game with plenty of modern eye-candy to show off your latest purchase to both your friends and the world. Â Â

www.overclock3d.net

AMD Zen 4 Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 7950X Review - OC3D

Total Warhammer 3 Whilst nowhere near as fun to play as its predecessor â yet â the latest version of the Games Workshop IP in a Creative Assembly platform looks ridiculously attractive and so fits in here neatly.   Â

www.overclock3d.net

Watchdogs : legion and warhammer III.

generally, the 7700x can be compared to the 12700K and 12900K in gaming.

The 7600X keeps up well, in Factorio:

https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2534/bench/factorio-ff-p_1100.webp

and Spiderman too:

https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2534/bench/Spider-Man-p.webp

The 7700X's package power under load is much lower than the 12900K's also:



138 watts vs 262 watts.

 

[g67575]

I'm curious, has anyone decided to wait for Meteor Lake (which uses the new Intel 4 process), in Q4 2023?

If so, is that because neither AMD nor Intel's products can currently offer enough of a performance uplift, in 2022?

Or, for some other reason?

 

[g67575]

Irrelevant how many intel systems you have. In fact, I bet a paycheck I've bought more amd systems than the average user. Heck, bought literally all of zen cpus except zen 3 If im wrong in something, you can point out where im wrong, saying im biased simply means you don't like what im saying even though it's the truth.

Im pretty confident the 13900k at 350w will have the MT crown as well, so there goes that as well. As ive said before, real users won't be ram matching their intel cpus, they will be running 7000+mhz and fly past zen 4 in gaming. And im not talking about raptorlake, im talking about alderlake Raptor is a different beast

Trying to buy very high end RAM now seems pointless and expensive (to gain a few frames, but for what?), with Meteor Lake just 1 year away.

Hardly anyone will bother, its like trying to get DDR4 5000 mt/s RAM working on Alder Lake or AM4.

 

[g67575]

Because that ram will also work on meteorlake?

When the price of that RAM will have fallen drastically, and it will be better supported by the new platform.

 

[g67575]

Claiming im wrong doesn't make me wrong.

Zen 4 vcache is going to be the best CPU for gamers. The 8 core version will be cheaper than 13th gen i9 CPUs.

RAM won't make much difference.

Enough said?

 

[g67575]

The best CPU for gamers will be the one with lowest dollars per frame so probably a 12600k like now or a 13600k...

x3d are only good at low resolution and stupid expensive anyway, they make the 4000 series look cheap

Seriously?

still got the 5800X3D beating Raptor Lake in some games, it costs around £410 in the UK.

 

[g67575]

Here we see the 13th gen jumping the shark.

Trying very hard not to highlight the performance of the 5800X3D, which clearly wins in some games.

No mention of the just released Zen 4 CPUs:

 

[g67575]

exactly not worth it... £410 for last gen cpu thats rubbish outside of gaming

already discussed, should have gone to spec savers or learn to read a chart if you can't see it

Do you have some kind of personality problem?

Getting upset about technology?

 

[g67575]

Tbf, at least they improved the intel 7 process technology.

 

[g67575]

You know whats the best way to hide the 3d? By not having it at all in the slides. Just like amd did

This is such a silly slide, they are claiming a percentage based performance advantage in some games (e.g. 6 percent), when you can see that the X3D is ahead in several titles.

It's sort of like saying 'well, the X3Ds don't count, they cheat with extra cache'

 

[g67575]

oh look personal attacks because he can't handle one mans opinion

If it seemed harsh, I was only reacting to what seemed to be an overly defensive point of view regarding Intel.

 

[g67575]

Well, the prices haven't increased for the 13700K and 13900K vs the 12th gen, so all the rumours that suggested otherwise were just plain wrong.

Don't suppose their investors will be too pleased.

There's gonna be some good competition between the 13700K and Ryzen 7700X. Realistically, lots will opt for the cheaper 13700KF and locked 13700, which will be late to the market.

Obvs people shouldn't be too surprised if next gen vcache CPUs blow everything else away in price and performance, for gaming.

 

[g67575]

It was clear from the AMD livestream that their power efficiency claims were smoke and mirrors.
Releasing new chips all with TDPs above 100W and telling us how efficient they are with a reduced 65W TDP was a bit strange.
AMD are forced to follow Intel and push the default settings well above optimal so that performance will look better versus the competition.
I don’t think Z4 is bad, it’s just that Z3 was a difficult act to follow and Intel have finally become more competitive.
Even Papermaster said that Z5 was the one that excited him, so I wasn’t expecting that much.

Whilst Z4 seems decent, with the higher power consumption and temperatures, I am wondering how much of a bottleneck the 3 and 4 nm nodes might be?
It seems as if TSMC will need different techniques rather than just shrinking the current node used here, which they have listed on the roadmap.
I don’t recall what and when or whether it’s too early to say what improvements will come.
Thermal density seems a difficult thing to deal with.

Around 100w-140w CPU package power(depending on voltage) is still pretty good, for the 8 core model, I'd say. Easily within the range of modern air coolers.

So this is where AMD does well, they are competitive with 8 cores. It's still not evident that more than this is useful to most PC/laptop users.