Maybe the retail version will basically be just like a 12th gen Alder Lake in performance (same Golden Cove cores afterall), but simply clocked higher compared to the 12900K.
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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments
- Thread starter g67575
- Start date
Tech question- In benchmarks and games, what what does does the cache ratio typically run at on the 12700K and 12900K, on stock settings? Just wondered, as this could be something Intel might try to ramp up, given the cache size increases for the 13th generation.
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Can't they ramp up the cache clock speeds as well? Surely that would help with some calculations and in many games.
It seems to be quite difficult to find any information about cache ratios of Intel CPUs.
It is something that can make a significant difference to game performance (0.1 and 1% Framerate lows), as shown in this video with an 8700K with CPU cores clocked at 5ghz:
www.youtube.com
Intel tends to ramp up the clock speed, as that is the thing that is well known and sells CPUs, but a CPU cache / Ring ratio of 5ghz could also help a lot. I think part of the difficulty is, a lot of boards don't seem to support higher cache ratios, my B560 board only supports upto 4.3ghz.
A cache ratio of 43x seems to be fairly common on Alder Lake CPUs, as discussed here:
www.reddit.com
Apparently you can overclock the Ring / cache ratio Alder Lake CPUs to ~5ghz, if you disable the E-Cores...
The effect of this could matter even more since they are increasing the cache sizes.
AMD could have a significant advantage, if the clockspeed and cache ratio of Zen 4 CPUs can exceed 5ghz.
It seems to be quite difficult to find any information about cache ratios of Intel CPUs.
It is something that can make a significant difference to game performance (0.1 and 1% Framerate lows), as shown in this video with an 8700K with CPU cores clocked at 5ghz:
Should you overclock uncore (cache) frequency ? 4.8Ghz vs 4.0Ghz tested in 8 games.
Overclocking uncore (cache) can provide some free extra performance. You should treat uncore as free stuff for Skylake and it's many brothers (Kabylake , Cof...
www.youtube.com
Intel tends to ramp up the clock speed, as that is the thing that is well known and sells CPUs, but a CPU cache / Ring ratio of 5ghz could also help a lot. I think part of the difficulty is, a lot of boards don't seem to support higher cache ratios, my B560 board only supports upto 4.3ghz.
A cache ratio of 43x seems to be fairly common on Alder Lake CPUs, as discussed here:
Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
Apparently you can overclock the Ring / cache ratio Alder Lake CPUs to ~5ghz, if you disable the E-Cores...
The effect of this could matter even more since they are increasing the cache sizes.
AMD could have a significant advantage, if the clockspeed and cache ratio of Zen 4 CPUs can exceed 5ghz.
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Numpty. DDR4 3200mhz support is crap. They are just trying to increase the performance gap between the two.
That's true. The info does say improved memory overclocking, but I think DDR5 will be getting most the love.
We know that Zen 3 (e.g. 5800X) without V-cache is 10-11% slower than the 12900K in games, and we now know that the IPC of Zen 4 is 8-10% higher then Zen 3.
Zen 4 IPC info:
Zen 3 720p avg gaming performance:
So, even without increases in clock speed, Zen 4 will be roughly as fast as the top Alder Lake CPUs in games. But, there will also be clock speed improvements of around 10%, vs Zen 3 (e.g. 5800X).
So, Intel has got a bit of a problem, especially if there is no IPC gain for the 13th generation.
I would imagine that improvements in L2/L3 cache will help the 13th gen to keep up in games...
Zen 4 IPC info:
Zen 3 720p avg gaming performance:
So, even without increases in clock speed, Zen 4 will be roughly as fast as the top Alder Lake CPUs in games. But, there will also be clock speed improvements of around 10%, vs Zen 3 (e.g. 5800X).
So, Intel has got a bit of a problem, especially if there is no IPC gain for the 13th generation.
I would imagine that improvements in L2/L3 cache will help the 13th gen to keep up in games...
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modern CPUs already have good multithreaded performance. Most people want more single core speed and efficiency. That ~7% increase in singlethreaded will probably require even more power usage than the 12th gen.
It's not great, because it requires consumers to buy ever more powerful air or water coolers.
Intel has chosen to increase E-core count because they have hit a wall on what's possible with 10nm performance cores.
It's another reason why IPC gains matter, usually they involve a performance increase without needing to increase power consumption much/at all.
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AMD looks set to catch with Intel, when Zen 4 is released. I think Intel's 13th gen could end up with higher singlethreaded performance, but only when clocked over 5.0ghz, so these parts won't be cheap or easy to cool.
It depends really. I think the 13th gen and Zen4 at the same clock speeds will give similar performance, so AMD's ability to compete at the enthusiast level end may depend on overclocking >5ghz, or maybe a premium super clocked edition at some point. It looks like 5.5ghz is going to roughly be the limit for both companies, excluding liquid nitrogen cooling
Intel won't be easily beaten by Zen4, but they will likely fall behind on gaming performance, with the release of Zen 4 CPUs + v-cache. It's quite easy to predict that, because the 5800X3D was already getting higher minimum framerates in some titles, than the much more power hungry, hotter running 12900KS. Power consumption comparison here:
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Intel have only has an IPC advantage with Golden Cove cores, which is what the 13th generation is using, but clocked higher.
They will probably lose this advantage against Zen 4, which has an 8-10% IPC increase vs Zen 3.
In many games, AMD already caught up with the Intel, with the 5800X3D. Despite being cheaper and using less power than the 12900K or KS.
In this case, the increased L3 cache is significantly more beneficial than Intel's E-cores for gaming.
So, I think the big news is that the single threaded performance of the 13900K and 12900K is basically identical at the same clockspeeds:
I find it quite incredible that several people were insisting that 'Raptor Cove' cores were a thing, and that there would be an IPC increase. Despite no indication of this on Intel's core roadmap.
So, what you will actually get is an increase in cache, and the potential to clock the CPU higher, with high end cooling.
I find it quite incredible that several people were insisting that 'Raptor Cove' cores were a thing, and that there would be an IPC increase. Despite no indication of this on Intel's core roadmap.
So, what you will actually get is an increase in cache, and the potential to clock the CPU higher, with high end cooling.
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I'm afraid not, it's a no. Both the 12th gen and 13th gen P-Cores will perform the same if clocked at 5.0ghz or 5.5ghz. I think some people managed over 6ghz already on a 12900K, probably with liquid nitrogen.
The results are pretty much what you'd expect:
valid.x86.fr
The voltage is pretty mental at 1.545v.
It looks like Intel have increased the voltage (around 1.34v) for the 13900K.
The results are pretty much what you'd expect:
CPU-Z Benchmark for Intel Core i9-12900K (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
Best CPU performance - 64-bit - November 2024
valid.x86.fr
The voltage is pretty mental at 1.545v.
It looks like Intel have increased the voltage (around 1.34v) for the 13900K.
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You're right, the Cache (particularly L2) could give it a nice boost in games, vs the 12th gen.
The main thing to consider, is the amount of cache per core. There's a 60% increase in the L2 cache per core for the 13th gen.
AMD and Intel are both competing to squeeze out a few more frames in games with cache increases.
The main thing to consider, is the amount of cache per core. There's a 60% increase in the L2 cache per core for the 13th gen.
AMD and Intel are both competing to squeeze out a few more frames in games with cache increases.
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Why is it exciting though? No improvement in IPC, small bump in clocks.
The 12600K can already get 4.9ghz with vcore @ 1.45v.
5ghz at 1.5v, according to this review:
Intel Core i5-12600K Review - Winning Price/Performance
The Core i5-12600K is the price/performance king in the Intel Alder Lake lineup. With its competitive pricing of $300, it's a clear winner against AMD's Ryzen 5 5600X and faster than even the 5800X in many applications and games. This is the gaming CPU you want.
Isn't Intel increasing their prices by 20% soon?
Main thing is, 5ghz all core might be achievable on air coolers with 13th gen.
So, it was a bit of a slow realisation for me
. That was on page 10, when we first heard about launch planning for Meteor Lake in 2023.13th gen. + 700 series should be good for new builds, still not sure if it will provide much benefit from 12th gen though.
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Bet still stands for Raptor Cove cores
If you look at the wiki page for Golden Cove here:
en.wikipedia.org
You can see that there's still room to improve L2 and L3 cache for desktop CPUs, even on the Golden Cove architecture. For servers (e.g. Sapphire Rapids, still to be released), Golden Cove allows upto 2MB of L2 cache per core, and upto 3MB of L3 Cache per core.
Alder Lake has upto 1.25MB of L2 and 2.5MB of L3 cache for each P-Core. Link here:
If you look at the wiki page for Golden Cove here:
Golden Cove - Wikipedia
You can see that there's still room to improve L2 and L3 cache for desktop CPUs, even on the Golden Cove architecture. For servers (e.g. Sapphire Rapids, still to be released), Golden Cove allows upto 2MB of L2 cache per core, and upto 3MB of L3 Cache per core.
Alder Lake has upto 1.25MB of L2 and 2.5MB of L3 cache for each P-Core. Link here:
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