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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments
- Thread starter g67575
- Start date
. I'm sure Intel would have loved to release Meteor Lake this year instead of a Golden Cove refresh, but Intel's 7nm EUV process was delayed, so we won't see it until 2023...The next gen X3D Zen 4 CPUs will be ahead of Intel's 13th in games, due to the 8-10% increase in IPC, 5ghz all core frequencies and a ton of cache.
Zen 3 is ~20% behind Alder Lake, according to this:
With Zen 4's IPC and clock improvements, AMD will close the gap with the Golden Cove microarchitecture. Should get around another 9-10% on top of that in games with Zen 4 X3D CPUs.
Zen 3 is ~20% behind Alder Lake, according to this:
With Zen 4's IPC and clock improvements, AMD will close the gap with the Golden Cove microarchitecture. Should get around another 9-10% on top of that in games with Zen 4 X3D CPUs.
It will require some more work to get the V-Cache working well at higher voltages apparently (to support higher clocks), currently the 5800X3D is limited to 1.35v. Link here:
www.pcgamer.com
It will be the 2nd gen of V-cache chips though, so I'm optimistic. Maybe the voltage constraints were part of the reason why it took a while to release the 5800X3D?
If not, The 5800X3D still grants ~9% higher FPS on average vs the 5800X, despite lower clock speeds. But, the main benefit will be higher min. framerates in games.
'Locked' AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D overclocked to 5.14GHz
Using MSI's expensive Godlike X570 motherboard, but that's still impressive.
It will be the 2nd gen of V-cache chips though, so I'm optimistic. Maybe the voltage constraints were part of the reason why it took a while to release the 5800X3D?
If not, The 5800X3D still grants ~9% higher FPS on average vs the 5800X, despite lower clock speeds. But, the main benefit will be higher min. framerates in games.
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There's some early rumours of both Intel's 13th gen and Zen 4 CPUs needing 1.45-1.5v at stock settings.
In theory, doesn't this mean that even motherboards with VRM core current power limited to 150 Amps (maximum), will be able to supply upto 225w to CPUs, assuming a Vcore of 1.5v?
Presumably, the VRMs will have to be able to officially support these higher voltages, to guarantee compatibility?
In theory, doesn't this mean that even motherboards with VRM core current power limited to 150 Amps (maximum), will be able to supply upto 225w to CPUs, assuming a Vcore of 1.5v?
Presumably, the VRMs will have to be able to officially support these higher voltages, to guarantee compatibility?
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Fair enough. Does that mean that AM4 and AM5 motherboards with VRMs rated for 150 amps should support all Zen 4 or Zen 5 CPUs, respectively*? Without any CPU power throttling at the rated turbo speeds?
Put another way, what should people look for in an AMD or Intel board (Zen 4 and Intel 13th gen), as a minimum to avoid power throttling at the rated turbo speeds?
It looks like because of the higher TDPs (and higher power usage at turbo speeds) of the 12th and 13th gen, vs Zen 4, AMD will have an advantage regarding motherboard power requirements for the CPU socket.
For the base CPU frequencies, it looks like upto 170w will be the maximum power consumed on AM5. With a maximum of ~230w at the highest turbo frequencies.
* This is based on the assumption that 1.5 volts x 150 amps = upto 225 watts
Or, alternatively 1.5 volts x 200 amps = upto 300 watts
Put another way, what should people look for in an AMD or Intel board (Zen 4 and Intel 13th gen), as a minimum to avoid power throttling at the rated turbo speeds?
It looks like because of the higher TDPs (and higher power usage at turbo speeds) of the 12th and 13th gen, vs Zen 4, AMD will have an advantage regarding motherboard power requirements for the CPU socket.
For the base CPU frequencies, it looks like upto 170w will be the maximum power consumed on AM5. With a maximum of ~230w at the highest turbo frequencies.
* This is based on the assumption that 1.5 volts x 150 amps = upto 225 watts
Or, alternatively 1.5 volts x 200 amps = upto 300 watts
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It's interesting looking at this motherboard VRM tier list:
linustechtips.com
It looks like with Zen 3, you can get away with a 100 amp board for a 5800X, and a 125 amp board for a 5900X (apparently that's enough to max them out).
Still, maybe worth spending a bit more to get something like a Gigabyte B550M Aorus Pro.
It's a shame there's no equivalent VRM lists for Intel boards, showing their maximum current draw.
Motherboard VRM Tier List v2 (currently AMD only)
Credit to: @LukeSavenije The following list is based on facts, ranked on power delivery and known problems. The list will include boards that support CPU overclocking available at retail from different brands. There are still differences in performance among boards of the same tier. As a result, ...
linustechtips.com
It looks like with Zen 3, you can get away with a 100 amp board for a 5800X, and a 125 amp board for a 5900X (apparently that's enough to max them out).
Still, maybe worth spending a bit more to get something like a Gigabyte B550M Aorus Pro.
It's a shame there's no equivalent VRM lists for Intel boards, showing their maximum current draw.
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That's very useful to know, thanks.
Looking at this, we can see that Zen 4 will need to be clocked at around 5.0ghz to keep up with Golden cove (in single core performance):
That's because the IPC increase of Zen 4 is 8% vs Zen 3, not enough to overtake Golden Cove at the same clock rate.
So, it seems likely that AMD will need V-cache to overtake Golden Cove in games, assuming the same clock rate for Zen 4 and Golden Cove.
I supose there's other factors to take into account too though, like differences in DDR5 RAM support and how the memory controller operates on Zen 4 (apparently it can operate at 1:1 with DDR5).
That's because the IPC increase of Zen 4 is 8% vs Zen 3, not enough to overtake Golden Cove at the same clock rate.
So, it seems likely that AMD will need V-cache to overtake Golden Cove in games, assuming the same clock rate for Zen 4 and Golden Cove.
I supose there's other factors to take into account too though, like differences in DDR5 RAM support and how the memory controller operates on Zen 4 (apparently it can operate at 1:1 with DDR5).
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This is generally true, but I think we are seeing diminishing returns, particularly over 5ghz, which seems to require much higher voltages than 4Ghz. Meteor Lake (on 'Intel 4' seems to be built to run efficiently at 1.3v and maybe higher. Any gains >5ghz will have to be paid for by the customer, with higher power consumption, better/chonkier coolers and likely better motherboard VRMs.
Nowadays, with many games using a lot of cache, overclocking the CPU cache ratios as high as possible seems to have more impact on minimum framerates in games, so this interests me more.
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Put another way, I think AMD will need to clock their Zen 4 CPUs around 8-10% higher, than a Golden Cove CPU at 5Ghz, to keep up in single core performance.
That's based on the 4ghz Zen 3/Golden Cove results above. In other words, 5.4Ghz to 5.5Ghz.
I think the demo showed the Core speeds dipping to ~5.2Ghz on some cores, so I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
That's based on the 4ghz Zen 3/Golden Cove results above. In other words, 5.4Ghz to 5.5Ghz.
I think the demo showed the Core speeds dipping to ~5.2Ghz on some cores, so I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
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Don't buy a new CPU, if you're happy with what you've got?
The 5800X3D is cheaper than the 12900K and much cheaper than the 12900KS.
So, for probably around £400, the 7800X3D is likely to be better bang for gamers (and have higher minimum FPS), than the 13700K and13900K
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Indeed, I think some people will look for a CPU with good all around performance (but maybe not the best in all areas), and also the highest possible minimum framerates. Comparing the power usage of the 5800X and 5800X3D, it looks like there isn't much of an increase in power consumption.
Cooling and total build cost matter too, you will probably be able to use less powerful coolers and mid end motherboards to max out a Zen 4 CPU with V-Cache (depending on if it's a 8, 12 or 16 core model), compared to the very hot and power hungry 12900K and 13900K.
Also, people with a Zen 4 CPU and RDNA2/3 GPU should able be able to enable 'Smart Access Memory' /resizable bar, which from the beginning seems to have been much provided a clearer benefit to minimum frame rates (and seems to be always enabled), compared to Nvidia's version of the technology.
Cooling and total build cost matter too, you will probably be able to use less powerful coolers and mid end motherboards to max out a Zen 4 CPU with V-Cache (depending on if it's a 8, 12 or 16 core model), compared to the very hot and power hungry 12900K and 13900K.
Also, people with a Zen 4 CPU and RDNA2/3 GPU should able be able to enable 'Smart Access Memory' /resizable bar, which from the beginning seems to have been much provided a clearer benefit to minimum frame rates (and seems to be always enabled), compared to Nvidia's version of the technology.
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Wow, an external SSD (USB 4), that can transfer 3GB single files in ~1 second! Great if true:
www.techpowerup.com
Intel really needs USB4 support in high end 13th gen boards... Could be great for fast system image backups.
ORICO Launches High-Performing Portable USB4 SSD Inspired by Mondrian
ORICO - Shenzhen-based innovative enterprise focusing on high-performance solutions for USB data transmission and charging - is proud to unveil the ORICO USB4 High Speed Portable SSD Montage 40 Gbps series, with a striking and durable design inspired Dutch painter Piet Mondrian. The bold and...
Intel really needs USB4 support in high end 13th gen boards... Could be great for fast system image backups.
I was talking about the 5800X3D, which is competitive with the 12700K and 12900K in games, especially when comparing DDR4 systems.
The 5800X3D is a bad idea, unless people want/need to stay on AM4. Better to wait for the Zen 4 version at this point.
Intel's tech. documentation confirms that Intel's 13th generation is still using the Golden Cove core architecture, which explains why the IPC is the same as the 12th gen. Details here:
wccftech.com
Essentially, it's just like how the Skylake architecture was optimised for each generation, between the 6th generation to the 10th (Comet Lake).
I wonder if they have optimised the IMC / memory controller at all, aside from increasing the supported DDR5 speeds? Ideally, 'Gear 1' / 1:1 memory controller ratio would be possible, at a lower DDR5 frequency.
It's good that we will see standardisation of DDR5 at 6000mhz and perhaps higher.
Intel Raptor Cove Cores For 13th Gen Raptor Lake CPUs Feature The Same Architecture As Alder Lake's Golden Cove Cores
Intel's 13th Gen Raptor Lake "Raptor Cove" CPUs and 12th Gen Alder Lake "Golden Cove" cores share the same microarchitecture.
wccftech.com
Essentially, it's just like how the Skylake architecture was optimised for each generation, between the 6th generation to the 10th (Comet Lake).
I wonder if they have optimised the IMC / memory controller at all, aside from increasing the supported DDR5 speeds? Ideally, 'Gear 1' / 1:1 memory controller ratio would be possible, at a lower DDR5 frequency.
It's good that we will see standardisation of DDR5 at 6000mhz and perhaps higher.
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