Poll: Ray Tracing - Do we care?

[jigger]

If you watch Jensen at the presentation he states, while showcasing the video, that this is 10G rays/s on the actual video pushing the card to the limits, and the new card replaced the previous generation multi quadro GPU solution (I believe he said 4 quadro) showcasing the same video back in March.

That is the full stretch of the RTX quadro can do

As @4K8KW10 said here
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32042650/

4K 60fps requires 199G rays/s plus approximately 10x this number for noise reduction.
That is 2000G rays/s. With the $10000 card doing 10G rays/s do you believe you will have a RTX2080Ti capable of doing that?
Hell even if we only need 199G rays/s still need a card more powerfull by 20 times over the more powerful RTX Quadro which costs $10,000

Sure in 10 years time, might be able to get a xxx80Ti with that capability, but not on Monday, nor this decade.

And is down to pure simple mathematics.

Personally I am up for ray tracing, but not liking the marketing mockery, because the numbers do not add up.

Not good.

 

[Rroff]

Ray tracing is relatively easier to scale across lots of GPUs - I don't see it out the realm of possibility if the tech takes off of seeing 4 way setups able to push at least 1440p 60 FPS far sooner than that.

EDIT: Also for gaming use you don't need that level of complexity - can comfortably exceed current graphic fidelity with real time, bounced lighting and limited caustics that still looks amazing with far less bounced passes and more constrained radiosity.

 

[jigger]

Nvidia have spent the last year telling everyone SLI is dead.... But even with 1-1 scaling that's still really poor performance.

 

[FloatingPoint]

Ray tracing is relatively easier to scale across lots of GPUs - I don't see it out the realm of possibility if the tech takes off of seeing 4 way setups able to push at least 1440p 60 FPS far sooner than that.

EDIT: Also for gaming use you don't need that level of complexity - can comfortably exceed current graphic fidelity with real time, bounced lighting and limited caustics that still looks amazing with far less bounced passes and more constrained radiosity.

Exactly, ray recursion depth can and will be computed depending on other shaders and geometry the same rays are about to/have interacted with.

 

[Rroff]

Nvidia have spent the last year telling everyone SLI is dead.... But even with 1-1 scaling that's still really poor performance.

Scaling ray tracing wouldn't be using traditional SLI techniques.

 

[4K8KW10]

If SLI was dead, how on Earth do they plan to make 8K gaming possible, if it requires four times more resources than 4K?

 

[FloatingPoint]

I think of raytracing as a subject that should be taught in school.

 

[Pottsey]

If you watch Jensen at the presentation he states, while showcasing the video, that this is 10G rays/s on the actual video pushing the card to the limits, and the new card replaced the previous generation multi quadro GPU solution (I believe he said 4 quadro) showcasing the same video back in March.

That is the full stretch of the RTX quadro can do

As @4K8KW10 said here
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32042650/

4K 60fps requires 199G rays/s plus approximately 10x this number for noise reduction.
That is 2000G rays/s. With the $10000 card doing 10G rays/s do you believe you will have a RTX2080Ti capable of doing that?
Hell even if we only need 199G rays/s still need a card more powerfull by 20 times over the more powerful RTX Quadro which costs $10,000

Sure in 10 years time, might be able to get a xxx80Ti with that capability, but not on Monday, nor this decade.

And is down to pure simple mathematics.

Personally I am up for ray tracing, but not liking the marketing mockery, because the numbers do not add up.

That's because you are looking at full ray tracing. If you look at hybrid ray tracing its a massively different story. Plus there are a number of methods you can use to cut down the required amount of rays needed. Hybrid RT should be perfectly doable and beneficial. A game doesn't need 199G rays/s to benefit from RT. I have seen mobile class GPUs pull off great Hybrid RT so there is no reason why a more powerful desktop card cannot do it.

EDIT: For games with Hybrid RT you can reduce that 400 Rays per pixel down to 10 per pixel and still get great results. If that’s still too much you can drop from 60fps down to 30fps but I do not see why you need to drop the FPS. If you rerun the maths with hybrid RT doing 10 rays per pixel you will see a very different story of 10 years away.

 

[Panos]

That's because you are looking at full ray tracing. If you look at hybrid ray tracing its a massively different story. Plus there are a number of methods you can use to cut down the required amount of rays needed. Hybrid RT should be perfectly doable and beneficial. A game doesn't need 199G rays/s to benefit from RT. I have seen mobile class GPUs pull off great Hybrid RT so there is no reason why a more powerful desktop card cannot do it.

EDIT: For games with Hybrid RT you can reduce that 400 Rays per pixel down to 10 per pixel and still get great results. If that’s still too much you can drop from 60fps down to 30fps but I do not see why you need to drop the FPS. If you rerun the maths with hybrid RT doing 10 rays per pixel you will see a very different story of 10 years away.

The problem is everyone is thinking that they will get gazillion of rays and image quality like on those demos.
And you can see that is what people believe with all that marketing not only here, but worldwide over the internet if you google search.

 

[Pottsey]

The problem is everyone is thinking that they will get gazillion of rays and image quality like on those demos.
And you can see that is what people believe with all that marketing not only here, but worldwide over the internet if you google search.

I see you point, full RT like those demos is many years away. Though I still see a benefit from the RT cards in the shorter term.

 

[smilingcrow]

And you can see that is what people believe with all that marketing not only here, but worldwide over the internet if you google search.

Some people believe that the world is flat, some that it was made in 6 days so you can't control what people believe no matter how evangelical you are about something.
Life isn't a game to control but to enjoy.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

Anyone remember Stardust on the Amiga with it's ray traced asteroids?

Yes I remembered played Super Stardust on A1200 blew up ray traced asteroids.

I remembered saw the first Amiga A1000 animated demos in Glasgow's Bath Street computer shop called Comcal back in 1985, Jugger & Cat demo and Kahnankas Newtons Cradle demo. Both Jugger and Kahnankas used ray tracing. Amazed.

Remembered watched so many very cool demoscene ray tracing demos.

 

[Samwell]

Seems there will be 4 games with raytracing in the nearer future:
Battlefield 5, Metro, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Control from Remedy.

Should give us a good picture, how it can look in games and whether it's worth it.

 

[D.P.]

Seems there will be 4 games with raytracing in the nearer future:
Battlefield 5, Metro, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Control from Remedy.

Should give us a good picture, how it can look in games and whether it's worth it.

There is likely to be more games using Ray tracing in the first year than there will be games launched using DX12 in its 4th year.

 

[Armageus]

There is likely to be more games using Ray tracing in the first year than there will be games launched using DX12 in its 4th year.

More than likely, difference is that NV will be throwing cash at developers to get RTX features implemented.

 

[JediFragger]

By the time ray-tracing is widely used in games then these 'new' cards will be doooooooooooog slow at it and barely worth using (outside of a tech demo or two). How it's always gone. Better to skip if 7nm cards aren't too far off if you want the ray-tracing tech.

 

[DONOHUE07]

If you don't care, you don't understand it.

Ok mate what ever puts this ridiculous conversation too bed, I care deeply, it’s ground breaking and I can’t wait until it’s implemented because it going to change my life forever.
Thank goodness you have come along and changed my mind.

 

[Gregster]

More than likely, difference is that NV will be throwing cash at developers to get RTX features implemented.

I hope this is true. I would be more than happy to see NVidia spending time, money and resources on raytracing to get it shown and what it can properly do.

 

[D.P.]

More than likely, difference is that NV will be throwing cash at developers to get RTX features implemented.

AMD threw cash at developers to get DX12 implemented. I actually see a lot of developers adding RTX support freely because ti can help differentiate their game. There is also the fact that game engines like Unreal and Unity have already added RTX support or are in the process.

Real time race tracing is what game developers have wanted for the last 30 years. A low level graphics API was completely undesirable for a vast majority and see DX12 as a step backwards.

 

[Freddie1980]

If SLI was dead, how on Earth do they plan to make 8K gaming possible, if it requires four times more resources than 4K?

Tbh we're going to have to come with new rendering techniques sooner or later as silicon development is nearly exhausted so brute forcing it isn't an option.