RDNA 3 rumours Q3/4 2022

[Rup]

RT usually makes a bigger difference than going from say high to ultra settings. Most of us here are enthusiasts and want the best.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

"Sucks at RT", appears from the AMD promo material to mean "around equal to or maybe better than a 3090", a card which nvidia seem still to be trying to punt at over £1k, while telling everyone in their 4xxx launch video that 'most gamers should be satisfied with the 3000 series performance'

But sure, it's AMD giving bad value for money. LOL.

It's weird how these people are justifying a £1300 RTX4070 and £1650 RTX4080/RTX4090,and then defending the RTX3080TI which is the competition for the RX7900XT/RTX7900XTX. The RTX3080TI is £900~£1100.

The RTX4060 12GB was going to cost the same as the RX7900XT!

The RTX4070 16GB starts at nearly £1300. They also seem to ignore the RTX3090 costs over £1300 too. So instead they on purpose defend at all costs the RTX4070 16GB pricing and act like £200~£700 minimum makes no difference,especially as non FE cards cost much more.

The RX7900XT/RX7900XTX might be "overpriced" but the high end Ampere and entire Ada Lovelace range are so overpriced,they make it look OK priced.

So AMD offering 50% to 70% better performance than the RX6950XT(even more in rasterised than an RTX3080TI) at the same RRP is suddenly rubbish,but Nvidia pricing the RTX4070 16GB at £1300 is fine because of RT.

Instead they blame AMD for poor pricing,and ask Nvidia to charge £1300+ for an RTX3070 replacement and £1650+ for an RTX3080/RTX3080TI replacement.

 

[Armageus]

I expected them to put the compute units in chiplets but it looks like they just did a normal GPU and added cache chiplets. Is this correct?

Sort of - they've moved the memory controllers and infinity cache out to chiplets, freeing up space on the "main" GPU die, allowing either more room for compute units, or to allow the main GPU die to be smaller/cheaper

 

[arknor]

I would say buy what you want at the price you are happy with.

Until these 7900x prices were revealed my only upgrade path was the 4080 16GB and I was going to have to pay £1200 plus to get it.

Both the 7900 cards are a lot faster than a 3090Ti in raster and about on par for RT. As you go down the stack it means that those of us on 3080 or 6800 have an upgrade path for the same inflation adjusted price.

Nvidia’s plans for a £1200+ 4070 (aka the 4080 16GB) have just been sank.

no one even knows what their performance really is yet, AMD figures could be with the camera pointing directly at the ground or the sky

 

[Neutral]

It doesn't matter about how fast an RTX4090 is in RT,if Nvidia rebrands the RTX4060 as a £900 RTX4080 12GB or a £450 RTX3070 replacement as a £1300 RTX4080 16GB. That means the RTX4060 will be a rebranded RTX3050 replacement with another mediocre performance jump.

Nvidia is also stagnating RT,by saying most of the sub £1000 market should stick with last generation RT performance,which is dire as my RTX3060TI is still useless in it,unless you cheat with DLSS2/FSR.

Basically I am having to degrade image quality just to make some improvements in other areas. So even if AMD "only" matches Ampere performance,the reality Nvidia is only interested in selling Ampere level RT performance to most average gamers.

Things such as tessellation existed since the ATI 8000 series in 2001,yet it took years for it to gain traction. It only really gained traction after a decade,and only really during the GCN/Kepler/Maxwell era was it applied in any liberal way.

The most important market is the mainstream market and consoles,because they make up the bulk of sales. So all the new tech means nothing if the average person has a rubbish dGPU or a console. This is determined by price. We are entering a massive global recession - Nvidia is more worried about margins and so is AMD to a lesser degree. Nvidia/AMD/Intel are all showing massive projected revenue losses - unless the prices drop most people will be sticking with what they have,ie,last generation RT performance.

PCMR hardware enthusiasts still don't get it after 20 years of wondering why games don't look as good as all the tech demos. The same with why games don't use 16 cores well,because again most games at best use four to six because that is what the affordable CPUs have. They might only need 8 cores one day because of consoles. This is why I was so critical of Zen4 pricing.

If you want more devs to target higher RT effects and more cores,it needs prices to drop to enable mass market adoption,and big price similar performance jumps. If companies like Nvidia want to sell the RTX4060 for £900 and the RTX4070 for £1300,a couple of PCMR hardware enthusiasts buying an RTX4090 or RX7900XTX won't change much. Even Cyberpunk 2077 and The Witcher 3 were downgraded because console and average PC hardware wasn't good enough. But the games can't be viable without those mass sales.

This is what happened until about 6~7 years ago,when everything seems to have go down the drain for the mainstream dGPU buyer. This is why games are stagnating visually - devs are targetting maximum sales.

Outside the odd AMD/ATI/Nvidia/Intel tech demo game which they throw money at to sell their new wares,most games in the last 20 years are targetted towards maximum sales. That means the average hardware spec of a gaming PC and the consoles will determine the level of RT effects used in most games. The biggest selling games in the world are MOBAs and MMORPGs. Almost all of them can run OK on a relative slow PC and have cartoony graphics.

Increasingly Microsoft and Sony are buying up game devs and these companies have deep investments in consoles. So ultimately most popular games will just stick with hybrid RT effects for the immediate future.

Hence the vested interest in pushing dlss, fsr, xess so it lowers the barrier to entry and let's people feel like they're getting a true premium experience and not a fiesta with flame stickers on the side

 

[Shaz12]

Not as good as the best =/= sucks. Does Ampere suck at RT?

Once games start taking advantage of the raw horsepower of the 4090 and increase the number of bounces in RT, it won't be as good. Plague Tale is an excellent example. 3090 will not be able to do RT once they patch it in. RT overdrive mode would be unplayable on 3090 in Cyberpunk.

Its also means why would you even upgrade from a 3080 Ti to as 7900XT? Most displays are 4k 120hz and the 3080 Ti already does over 80 fps in almost all raster games. Its only RT which really needed to get better and the 7900XT is essentially a 3080 Ti in that respect so why bother upgrading unless you really notice the difference between 80 and 120. You won't be able to go beyond 120 as your display will be the limiting factor.

 

[chroniclard]

So much justification for being reamed by Jensen. Not required, just enjoy what you bought....

 

[FredFlint]

Sort of - they've moved the memory controllers and infinity cache out to chiplets, freeing up space on the "main" GPU die, allowing either more room for compute units, or to allow the main GPU die to be smaller/cheaper

That makes more sense but does mean it’s not going to be as scalable as some think, cannot add more CU’s as its all in the main die. That said, they could do a bigger main die version.

 

[h4wks]

Nearly all triple AAA games are coming with RT and AMD again have dropped the ball on that front

Call of Duty MWII released last week with zero RT, even though the previous three titles (2019-21) had support. Is this is a reflection of consumers priorities?

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Ampere is over 2 years old.....

But does it suck at RT? You never answered.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

RT usually makes a bigger difference than going from say high to ultra settings. Most of us here are enthusiasts and want the best.

Ah, there's some more of that low rent trolling we were just talking about.

The 7900xtx, if we believe the figures they gave (and for now we have no others) equals or beats ampere at RT, and looks to be approaching the 40 series in raster performance (certainly outshining ampere there). For 60% of the price of the only available 40 series card, and with much better power consumption.

That certainly looks more like “best” to me, than a halo card which costs £1700 and burns the house down while you play. “Most” of us won’t be buying a 4090, even here on an enthusiasts forum, so it’s of interest what else the market can offer at various price points.

 

[Shaz12]

Call of Duty MWII released last week with zero RT, even though the previous three titles (2019-21) had support. Is this is a reflection of consumers priorities?

Its a multiplayer shooter. Why would it support RT? Even if it did, no one would use it as performance is key in MP shooters. Also the previous titles had non-existent RT which is RT shadows. I also disabled it in BF2042. These games already look like **** when it comes to graphics (that's by design) so RT is like putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Hence the vested interest in pushing dlss, far, xess so it lowers the barrier to entry and let's people feel like they're getting a true premium experience and not a fiesta with flame stickers on the side

Exactly and it shows how much a decade of marketing has had. The same logic as the people on here defending the RTX4060 12GB being a £900 dGPU,the RTX4070 16GB being a £1300+ dGPU and the RTX4080/RTX4080TI being a £1650+ dGPU.

Then they on purpose ignore the fact the RTX3080TI costs about £900~£1100 and they tried to replace it with the RTX4060 12GB at £900.

So ATM,the RX7900XT/RX7900XT is competing not with an RTX3090 which costs over £1300,but an RTX3080TI. The RX6900XT has dropped under £700.

Nothing stopping Nvidia dropping the RTX3090TI to under £1000. Nothing stopping Nvidia dropping the price of the RTX4070 16GB to under £600,hence forcing AMD to drop its prices massively too.

Instead defend the company massively jacking up prices and attack the company,who priced their high end dGPU at the same price as last generation and offering decent performance boosts. Nvidia have literally done a Turing MK2 move,and made a $900~$1000 set of AMD dGPUs look "better value".

But,but pay much more and you will get more performance in RT.

Even when AMD prices it stuff lower,which meant Nvidia has had to remove the £900 RTX4060 12GB and possibly have to price drop the RTX3080TI and RTX4070 16GB,these people are trying their best to ask Nvidia not to drop pricing.

Some of these guys would make Rollo proud.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Its a multiplayer shooter. Why would it support RT? Even if it did, no one would use it as performance is key in MP shooters. Also the previous titles had non-existent RT which is RT shadows. I also disabled it in BF2042. These games already look like **** when it comes to graphics (that's by design) so RT is like putting lipstick on a pig.

So it's a multiplayer shooter, probably the most popular genre of game out of them all, which RT shouldn't try to run on?

For the record I agree performance is better but that's a pretty huge market to not want RT on.

 

[glenimp617]

The 7900XTX is not competing with a 3080Ti. They are different generations for a start.

 

[Shaz12]

Ah, there's some more of that low rent trolling we were just talking about.

The 7900xtx, if we believe the figures they gave (and for now we have no others) equals or beats ampere, and looks to be approaching the 40 series in raster performance (certainly outshining ampere there). For 60% of the price of the only available 40 series card, and with much better power consumption.

That certainly looks more like “best” to me, than a halo card which costs £1700 and burns the house down while you play. “Most” of us won’t be buying a 4090, even here on an enthusiasts forum, so it’s of interest what else the market can offer at various price points.

Why does caring about RT = trolling? I want a GPU which is good at both raster and RT or at the very least completely smokes the 4090 in raster (we can use VSR to upscale and downscale to get beyond the 120hz limitation). I don't mind paying high prices for this hobby but AMD had nothing for a customer like me yesterday.

 

[h4wks]

Its a multiplayer shooter. Why would it support RT? Even if it did, no one would use it as performance is key in MP shooters. Also the previous titles had non-existent RT which is RT shadows. I also disabled it in BF2042. These games already look like **** when it comes to graphics (that's by design) so RT is like putting lipstick on a pig.

The campaign is great tbh

 

[Shaz12]

The 7900XTX is not competing with a 3080Ti. They are different generations for a start.

People upgrading from a 3080 Ti or any 3000 series card will be looking at it as an upgrade route. Maybe it makes sense for those on a 3070 or lower but I doubt that customer base would be looking for a card which costs over a grand.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The 7900XTX is not competing with a 3080Ti. They are different generations for a start.

They are in price because AMD hasn't increased RRPs. The RX7900XT is $900 and the RX7950XTX is $999. It's no point wheeling out the RTX4070 16GB or RTX4080/RTX4080TI because Nvidia wants $1199+ and $1599+ for both of them. The RTX3090 is over £1300.

Nvidia has to drop the price of the RTX3090/RTX3090TI/RTX4070 16GB.

If they don't what do you think the entire range is going to look like under £900?

Nvidia is most likely going to try and push the £900 RTX4080 12GB,as probably a £700+ RTX4070 of some sort. Remember its a similar sized dGPU to an RTX3060!

The RTX3050 successor will be rebranded as a £400+ RTX4060. Plus you have all the existing overpriced Ampere dGPUs selling at pandemic pricing.

The whole stack under £1000 will be stuck at Ampere level RT performance,so all this extra RT performance of the RTX4000 series doesn't have an effect on most gamers.

Nvidia could have had another Maxwell moment or another 8800GT moment,but their accountants got in the way. They have given AMD a big chance,just like when Intel did it with AMD.

Haven't people cottoned by now the RX690 was rebranded as a higher price RX5700XT because Nvidia jacked up pricing? It was still much cheaper than the RTX2070.

 

[uscool]

Its a multiplayer shooter. Why would it support RT? Even if it did, no one would use it as performance is key in MP shooters. Also the previous titles had non-existent RT which is RT shadows. I also disabled it in BF2042. These games already look like **** when it comes to graphics (that's by design) so RT is like putting lipstick on a pig.

and you dont need as much high FPS on single and slower based games so RT 60fps min should give good experience