Re-Installing Loft Flooring and Fixing the Errors of the Past

[~Divine~Wind~]

Spoiler

I've been a bit on and off with this over the weekend but have some progress and plenty of images. Words are of course optional .

I went a bit MacGyver and fabricated a tool from extension poles, a tree felling wedge and plenty of duct tape so that I could reach the eaves to clear the soffits of insulation. I really didn't want to clear or crawl over all that insulation! Worked a treat .

The MacGyver'ing continues - ripped a length of old board to make my Stick Of Support. Obligatory power tool image . I'm such a Makita tart.

First few uni-supports in their place.

Then ran a datum line (using strimmer line pulled taught as I'd ran out of string!) and the tri-supports in place, the Stick Of Support guiding the way.

Then some more supports and then crossbeams fitted.

Next section, skipping the uni-supports as these can be placed under the crossbeams later, saves marking out all the joists.

Some more crossbeams fitted...

...and some more.

The previously compressed insulation is really starting to lift now.

Taking of insulation....

The part nobody likes. One roll down.

This insulation has cuts semi-made so makes placement over the crossbeams a lot easier.

The third roll of insulation down.

That's half of the loft done like this but I'll be putting the boards that this section first before moving on.

It's pretty easy stuff, just takes time and feeling like Tarzan going from one truss to another keeping your feet on the joists.

Itchy.

Ive gone all itchy just looking at these

how much roughly to do the entire loft?

I'm hoping I can do away with some of the new build chaos bracing in the loft

 

[Mysterae_]

Braver than me stepping over the rafters! I was worried about falling through so I did it more it iteratively.

I can recomend a hatch like below I made

Nicely done! That'll definitely help access and prevent anybody falling down the hatch. Funny that you mention it as it's the one area that I've not finalised yet.

The additional height of the legs will raise the loft flooring by 300mm so it'll be quite a big step from the loft ladders so will need a handle or support to aid access. Additionally the loft hatch door has the ladders integral to it and it's not insulated and I'm sure leaks a bit. Seems a bit silly to go to such lengths to insulate the loft and leave this obvious weak spot.

I'm wanting to make something that will seal the loft from the house but still allow air to flow over the hatch, eave to eave and under the loft flooring. I'm thinking something along the lines of a piece of insulation board that I can pull down in place before folding the ladders and closing the hatch. It'll then need lifting and pushed out the way when access is required. There's a few videos on youtube where they've done something similar.

 

[Mysterae_]

Ive gone all itchy just looking at these

how much roughly to do the entire loft?

I'm hoping I can do away with some of the new build chaos bracing in the loft

Oddly enough the new insulation I used wasn't as itchy as the stuff that was already down, easy enough to cut or tear too.

To do this section of loft at an area of 30sqm it was £1,366 rounding the pennies (LoftZone stuff - £659, flooring - £452 and the insulation - £255). It wasn't until after the ordering that I found out I could have got a discount on the flooring and insulation if I had bought it in person so perhaps £150 cheaper. I worked out if I wanted to floor the entire loft rather than just this section it would cost around £3k as the insulation is fine in the other areas and the boards would be smaller, but I thought that it was a bit of diminishing returns. The area floored is ample already.

You mention new build - the insulation should already be at least 270mm already so are you just looking at flooring it?

 

[Macky]

Looks good! That loft zone equipment is much more expensive than the plastic loft legs I used.

 

[Mysterae_]

Looks good! That loft zone equipment is much more expensive than the plastic loft legs I used.

Indeed, it took some justification to go down the loft zone route. B&Q sell the XL loft legs at £130 for 72 of them, two packs would have been enough. I could have used thinner insulation and 18mm boards (or attempted to reuse the old bent and stinky ones) for an even bigger saving.

 

[kaku]

About to embark on a similar adventure so will keep this thread to hand. I found you can get a bit of a discount buying the loft zone stuff through homebase rather than direct, although as it's in kits only it might be more difficult if you need an exact amount.

 

[Mysterae_]

About to embark on a similar adventure so will keep this thread to hand. I found you can get a bit of a discount buying the loft zone stuff through homebase rather than direct, although as it's in kits only it might be more difficult if you need an exact amount.

I was hoping for a discount but I've never seen anything come up.

Some more progress after a bit of time away from it, laid some more insulation and a number of boards. It's become quite the sold construction now.

I'm not impressed with these flooring boards from Travis Perkins, they don't fit very well in the tongue and groves, always gaps and not quite level with each other, sometimes the edges are a bit proud. They are the right way up according to the print on them, perhaps it's the non-brickwork pattern I've used. It's fine for a loft though.

Now I have the other section to do. This will be a bit more tricky with the loft hatch and extractor fan with it's ducting.

I've been mulling over (overthinking more like!) possible routes for the ducting and the placement of the extractor fan with it's condensate trap. I don't want to core another hole in the wall, I must use the existing one.

Probably do something like this, it's looks a bit weird but it's functional:

Most of the ducting will be enclosed in the insulation (as well as thermal wrap) so much less chance for the moist air to condensate until after the fan. The fan will be mounted on the wall and it's attached condensate trap will capture any condensation which will be routed outside.

It's not pretty...

This might change once I've got the existing boards lifted and have placed the ducting in situ, we shall see.

 

[jpaul]

wouldn't you keep the exhaust piping in line . and leave a trap/hatch for access/check the pump - the inverted U immediately after pump looks like the change in flow direction would cause condensation.

is your existing loft ladder when refixed higher still going to have clearance to get through hole ?
I think I could put a piece of removable polystrene on the loft door so that it could be moved out of the way, when the ladder is down - some kind of track/slot on door back to locate it.

 

[Macky]

Jumping on this thread. Has anyone successfully insulated a loft hatch with attached ladder?

 

[Street]

Jumping on this thread. Has anyone successfully insulated a loft hatch with attached ladder?

I screwed some Celotex board to the back of one of my hatches between that and the ladder. I think I could only use 50mm insulation, but it was better than nothing and definitely made a better seal.

 

[Zaphan58]

Jumping on this thread. Has anyone successfully insulated a loft hatch with attached ladder?

Is there enough room to slide a piece of cellotex between the hatch and ladder? Or a piece of loft insulation with some plastic lining stapled over the top to hold it in place.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Jumping on this thread. Has anyone successfully insulated a loft hatch with attached ladder?

Yes, I used a Manthorpe GL250, the 50mm PIR version.

It’s got a wide surround around the access hole and the door is hinged on the outside of that surround so the door and insulation drops away from the access hole giving free access for a ladder.

Just make sure you measure it all up correctly, I had to trim a few mm of coving away to fit it, it will look fine once I’ve filled and pained mind and you can’t really see what I’ve done anyway.

Its part L compliant for a new build (air leakage requirements)

Loft Access Door | Manthorpe

The GL250 drop down loft door is an innovative solution to the need for energy efficient loft space access, offering a cost effective alternative to traditional roof space entry. The unobtrusive design coupled with sleek, contemporary styling makes the door an ideal match for modern decors.

www.manthorpebp.co.uk

Just make sure you buy the correct version as it comes in various depths of insulation and polystyrene and PIR versions.

IIRC, PIR is twice as effective as polystyrene when it comes to insulation.

 

[jpaul]

Problem is that anything thick on the back of door interferes with(hits and lies against) the ladder unless the ladder is stood off (somehow) from the hinged door,
the existing piece of thin polystyrene has already been damaged - mine looks similar to the gl250

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Problem is that anything thick on the back of door interferes with(hits and lies against) the ladder unless the ladder is stood off (somehow) from the hinged door,
the existing piece of thin polystyrene has already been damaged - mine looks similar to the gl250

The hatch I linked above has a hinge which swings the hatch away from the opening.

If you look at the pictures, the recessed it is the opening but the hinge is on the edge of the wider surround.

You could probably get 10cm of PIR on it before it interacted with a ladder. Case in point that I’m planning on attaching the PIR from my old hatch on to double the thickness.

Don’t forget, it’s just foam, you can notch it to allow the ladder to pass at the top if needed.

 

[dlockers]

I think op may have meant a hatch with ladder attached.

 

[jpaul]

you need a hatch door with an offset hinge , so that the thick insulated panel would better swing clear of the ladder, and, generally, not foul the opening space

Spoiler: ie

 

[Mysterae_]

wouldn't you keep the exhaust piping in line . and leave a trap/hatch for access/check the pump - the inverted U immediately after pump looks like the change in flow direction would cause condensation.

Having the exhaust ducting in line and straight to the outside would definitely be easier and I certainly considered it! The problem is I can't be absolutely certain that no moisture will condense at the fan, even if it's as close to the exit as possible and wrapped up in insulation. The fan housing leaks at all it's joints so that water would go in to the insulation, build up and cause the usual problems. This was the mess after removing all the insulation wrap from the fan unit and ducting.

This has been an ongoing saga since I installed the fan - bored of it now!

To be absolutely sure that no moisture escapes from the ducting and fan I'm using a condensate trap -

For the condensate trap to work, it needs to be orientated vertically so the moisture runs down the ducting's internal wall where it's collected and directed to the output. This means that the fan needs to be mounted vertically too, hence my crazy duct routing .

I sometimes think I should have got someone in to put a vent in the roof and direct it straight up, but this will get me there without another hole in the roof.

 

[Mysterae_]

is your existing loft ladder when refixed higher still going to have clearance to get through hole ?
I think I could put a piece of removable polystrene on the loft door so that it could be moved out of the way, when the ladder is down - some kind of track/slot on door back to locate it.

Jumping on this thread. Has anyone successfully insulated a loft hatch with attached ladder?

I think op may have meant a hatch with ladder attached.

Yes, the loft ladder is attached to the loft door and protrudes 175mm above the top of the joists but it's contained in the area of the loft hatch door, so it won't get in the way of the new loft flooring when stowed. There is a seal around the hatch opening but the door itself is not insulated in any way.

The plan is to create a box out of 50mm PIR (maybe thicker) with a removable lid that can be pushed out of the way when getting in the loft and pulled back in place upon exiting the loft.

Can easily make something out of one sheet of 2.4x1.2m PIR.

As good as SketchUp is, those dimensions aren't definite due to the way the loft ladder arcs up and I'm aiming to leave a bit of a gap between the top of the "lid" and the flooring for air to move rather than make if flush with the flooring.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Aren't those hatches insulated already (to a degree)?

 

[Mysterae_]

Aren't those hatches insulated already (to a degree)?

Not mine, solid wooden hatch with a seal around it that's been crushed beyond usefulness.