Re-Installing Loft Flooring and Fixing the Errors of the Past

[b0rn2sk8]

I think you can get direct replacements that are, expensive mind that's why I have a standard hatch and separate aluminium loft ladder.

Your plan isn't unreasonable as an alternative - I just question as to whether it is going to be 'sealed' enough to capture the warm air between the hatch and the PIR or if it will naturally leak through the caps.

 

[Mysterae_]

I think you can get direct replacements that are, expensive mind that's why I have a standard hatch and separate aluminium loft ladder.

Your plan isn't unreasonable as an alternative - I just question as to whether it is going to be 'sealed' enough to capture the warm air between the hatch and the PIR or if it will naturally leak through the caps.

I'll try my best to seal it. There's a number of youtube videos where they've done something similar, using silicone, glue or caulk seal the edges. I'll probably replace the seal around the door too for good measure.

 

[Mysterae_]

In tonight's episode of "what other surprises have we discovered?" I bring you the following.

Lifted some of the remaining boards and discovered some more mould underneath, I wasn't expecting it here.

This is above a different bathroom which doesn't have an extractor installed. That's a later job.....

Questionable wiring aside, here's where the moisture was getting in - through a small hole in the ceiling above the light fitting. It's amazing that so much moisture could permeate through the insulation but stands to reason as warm does move to cold air.

This is a bit of an odd find - an old box of matches with it's corner a bit chewed, still quite a few matches inside too.

Lift the insulation around it to reveal a lair.

The little critters have been stealing the insulation from the pipes and dragging it here to chew and break up for bedding. The matches might have been a bit extreme to get warm though.

Maybe removing the pipe insulation was part of their plan - to make the pipes freeze and burst thus putting out any fire. Mice are smart. And stupid. And soon dead.

Also note the lack of insulation here - the previous owners only laid two layers of what looks to be 50mm insulation. This is different from the stuff elsewhere oddly as well as foil backed plasterboard.

Cleaned that side up only to find the the side next to it was just as bad, plus had other things such as the ends of copper pipes, nails and crap.

I believe this has been here a long time. There's only one water pipe in the loft and it's such a short run plus it's insulation is intact, so I think this was from when there was a header tank in the loft which is long gone.

Needless to say I'll be setting up some traps just in case there's any more mice thinking about taking up winter residence in the loft.

 

[jpaul]

so do you know how mice accessed roof space ? - cavity climbing/access somewhere ?

--------------
with integrated trap door and ladder - ok, coffin cover seems the common internet option.

for me with separate hatch and ladder - without adequate clearance behind ladder and descended door - I think simple solution of just a lump of 10cm pir board I push into the opening before closing trap

 

[aVdub]

Questionable wiring aside, here's where the moisture was getting in - through a small hole in the ceiling above the light fitting. It's amazing that so much moisture could permeate through the insulation but stands to reason as warm does move to cold air.

This is a bit of an odd find - an old box of matches with it's corner a bit chewed, still quite a few matches inside too.

Lucky in a way as that poor attempt at a light fitting may have not been discovered until after the damage was done.

 

[Buffman]

Yes, the loft ladder is attached to the loft door and protrudes 175mm above the top of the joists but it's contained in the area of the loft hatch door, so it won't get in the way of the new loft flooring when stowed. There is a seal around the hatch opening but the door itself is not insulated in any way.

The plan is to create a box out of 50mm PIR (maybe thicker) with a removable lid that can be pushed out of the way when getting in the loft and pulled back in place upon exiting the loft.

Can easily make something out of one sheet of 2.4x1.2m PIR.

As good as SketchUp is, those dimensions aren't definite due to the way the loft ladder arcs up and I'm aiming to leave a bit of a gap between the top of the "lid" and the flooring for air to move rather than make if flush with the flooring.

Crazy amount of modelling to indicate this

Could you not just replace with a new insulated hatch with ladder? Mine cost about 300 quid a couple years ago.

 

[Mysterae_]

so do you know how mice accessed roof space ? - cavity climbing/access somewhere ?

--------------
with integrated trap door and ladder - ok, coffin cover seems the common internet option.

for me with separate hatch and ladder - without adequate clearance behind ladder and descended door - I think simple solution of just a lump of 10cm pir board I push into the opening before closing trap

I think the mice got in through the soffits before I replaced them and also two holes in the internal part of the wall cavity which I have yet to seal up. I had cavity wall insulation put in a few years ago so they're probably all happy snuggles up inside that instead.

Lucky in a way as that poor attempt at a light fitting may have not been discovered until after the damage was done.

Indeed. I shared it as I was honestly surprised at how much moisture leaked out of there. That bathroom really needs an extract fan so that job has moved up the list.

Crazy amount of modelling to indicate this

Could you not just replace with a new insulated hatch with ladder? Mine cost about 300 quid a couple years ago.

You mock, but the time planning and using SketchUp has really paid off . I wouldn't have had a clue on what to order, plus it helps explain things.

If the loft ladder was knackered I would definitely have replaced it and the hatch, but the ladder is fine so the gains don't seem worth the effort, time and cost. The PIR box will cost less than £50 to make and may even insulate better.

 

[Simon42]

You mock, but the time planning and using SketchUp has really paid off . I wouldn't have had a clue on what to order, plus it helps explain things.

I am worse than you

Having done significant renovation of all my homes I've really come to value modern design software for its planning potential and to avoid rework years down the line. For my current home I moved from DIY grade software to purchasing pro level home architectural software despite its very high price and its been worth it. I modelled the existing house and have used it to plan so many updates, from structural changes to colour schemes and the style and position of new radiators, doors, windows etc.

Being able to view realisatic 3D views of all potential changes it so useful, and I've modelled down to even the joists/truss level, pipework and electrics/networking.

 

[Mysterae_]

I am worse than you

Having done significant renovation of all my homes I've really come to value modern design software for its planning potential and to avoid rework years down the line. For my current home I moved from DIY grade software to purchasing pro level home architectural software despite its very high price and its been worth it. I modelled the existing house and have used it to plan so many updates, from structural changes to colour schemes and the style and position of new radiators, doors, windows etc.

Being able to view realisatic 3D views of all potential changes it so useful, and I've modelled down to even the joists/truss level, pipework and electrics/networking.

That sounds awesome, I could really get lost in that type of software! What software was it and how much is it? I really shouldn't ask as I'd spend more time on that than doing any work .

 

[Simon42]

What software was it and how much is it? I really shouldn't ask as I'd spend more time on that than doing any work .

I checked out several products specifically for home architectural work as these understand how houses and their parts, fixtures and fittings are built and fit with each other. That makes them so much faster to use than the like of Revit or SketchUp.

I bought Chief Architect Premier, the cost was basically $3k USD when I purchased and $500-$600 a year for maintenance covering all upgrades. Sadly its now subscription only at $2k USD per year but existing users like me get the old style price as long as we never stop renewing I did feel a little better about the cost when I got some bathroom quotes (hilarious price so doing it myself) and my suggested layout plans and renders made theirs look like MS Paint despite them paying about the same per license per year.

They do have lesser versions and their Home Designer Pro gets a lot of the key features, but it had a few limitations that made me upgrade to the full version.

 

[Mysterae_]

I checked out several products specifically for home architectural work as these understand how houses and their parts, fixtures and fittings are built and fit with each other. That makes them so much faster to use than the like of Revit or SketchUp.

I bought Chief Architect Premier, the cost was basically $3k USD when I purchased and $500-$600 a year for maintenance covering all upgrades. Sadly its now subscription only at $2k USD per year but existing users like me get the old style price as long as we never stop renewing I did feel a little better about the cost when I got some bathroom quotes (hilarious price so doing it myself) and my suggested layout plans and renders made theirs look like MS Paint despite them paying about the same per license per year.

They do have lesser versions and their Home Designer Pro gets a lot of the key features, but it had a few limitations that made me upgrade to the full version.

MS Paint lol!

That top tier software looks the business but quite a bit overkill my needs . The Home Designer Pro does look good though and a bit more affordable. Must resist! I presume although being aimed at the American market it can still do metric measurements? Imperial would drive me insane.

 

[Simon42]

Must resist! I presume although being aimed at the American market it can still do metric measurements? Imperial would drive me insane.

Yes it has metric or imperial templates and settings. While a lot of its users are from America it does have enough users elsewhere to make metric important and it works fine with brick/block construction.

 

[Simon42]

One last thing about good house 3D modelling software for home renovations that I didn't think about until using it, is light planning for both natural and artificial. Most good applications allow setting the property location GPS co-ords and then sun via full date and time.

I was impressed that if you get things lined up correctly the sun/shadows from windows and doors and around the garden matches real world so precisely. This has enabled me to avoid issues with some internal wall and door moves and improve natural lighting that would be guesswork otherwise, plus you can try all times of the year. It's a similar thing with internal light planning.

 

[Mysterae_]

One last thing about good house 3D modelling software for home renovations that I didn't think about until using it, is light planning for both natural and artificial. Most good applications allow setting the property location GPS co-ords and then sun via full date and time.

I was impressed that if you get things lined up correctly the sun/shadows from windows and doors and around the garden matches real world so precisely. This has enabled me to avoid issues with some internal wall and door moves and improve natural lighting that would be guesswork otherwise, plus you can try all times of the year. It's a similar thing with internal light planning.

That is such a good feature. We have a north facing livingroom so the lighting isn't the best but there are options to improve it. I was considering putting in two long non-opening windows on the east wall but it's difficult to envisage it, how wide can/should they be etc. I've bookmarked that software, there are a few other projects that come to mind .

 

[Mysterae_]

Lifted up more manky boards...

Binned some of the insulation due to the mould and mice detritus being impossible to vacuum off without sucking up an entire sheet of insulation. Sorting out loft hatch area and sizing up for the ductng.

Feeling quite fatigued today, not getting as much done as I'd hoped.

 

[Mysterae_]

I was running a length of pipe for the condensate from the fan to an unused overflow pipe in the wall, but when I unblocked the pipe a ******* big wasp fell out of it. It looked dead but after poking it for signs of life it soon woke up and was a bit angry. Very angry!

It turns out that around this time of the year most wasps start to die off through lack of food and it is quite likely a queen wasp.

It's still up there as I high-tailed it out of there (had to leave, honest) but I'll be back and armed this time!

 

[dlockers]

I was running a length of pipe for the condensate from the fan to an unused overflow pipe in the wall, but when I unblocked the pipe a ******* big wasp fell out of it. It looked dead but after poking it for signs of life it soon woke up and was a bit angry. Very angry!

It turns out that around this time of the year most wasps start to die off through lack of food and it is quite likely a queen wasp.

It's still up there as I high-tailed it out of there (had to leave, honest) but I'll be back and armed this time!

Welp. Loft project over, you're gonna have to seal it off indefinitely now.

 

[Mysterae_]

Welp. Loft project over, you're gonna have to seal it off indefinitely now.

No other option!

 

[Wegason]

Its her place now

 

[sigma]

I was running a length of pipe for the condensate from the fan to an unused overflow pipe in the wall, but when I unblocked the pipe a ******* big wasp fell out of it. It looked dead but after poking it for signs of life it soon woke up and was a bit angry. Very angry!

It turns out that around this time of the year most wasps start to die off through lack of food and it is quite likely a queen wasp.

It's still up there as I high-tailed it out of there (had to leave, honest) but I'll be back and armed this time!

Could be a hornet?