Religious Help!

[Yas786]

Try hereBTW if you don't want to play don't post in the first place.

LOL and how does what i say condone wife beating within Islam exactly??. All i pointed out to Beren that wife beating isnt just exclusive to islam...i really do hope you can get what im saying here because if you cant then im sorry but i cant explain it anymore clearly.

But then you think what you like, no skin off my nose.

 

[cleanbluesky]

LOL and how does what i say condone wife beating within Islam exactly??. All i pointed out to Beren that wife beating isnt just exclusive to islam...i really do hope you can get what im saying here because if you cant then im sorry but i cant explain it anymore clearly.

But then you think what you like, no skin off my nose.

Can you think of another ideology that condone wifebeating?

Do you think its okay to beat your wife? Would you beat your wife?

 

[Yas786]

There were no muslim lands before Muhammed though

ok ok i know, made a mistake you pedantic sod you...hows your gout by the way??.

 

[Beren]

I dont know and i dont pretend to know tbh. Where have i equated wrong doings in the west with acceptable behaviour in islam??. Have i said anywhere that i condone wife beating??...christ i give up

You specifically asked me for and seemed genuinely interested in specific differences between Islam and Christianity. I can discuss pretty much any chapter in the old and new testament and in a lot of cases the lessons from specific verses in the new testament. I don't understand, do you follow Islam without having studied all of the Quran?

Islam - You are told to beat your wife if she rebels against you.
[4:34] So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded . As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.

Assuming you are accepting that Islam IS based on the Quran? I may not be an expert, I can read. Oh and for the translation scourge is the same word in Arabic as is used to describe punishing slaves.

Christianity - You are told to cherish and love your wife.
28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

LOL and how does what i say condone wife beating within Islam exactly??. All i pointed out to Beren that wife beating isnt just exclusive to islam...i really do hope you can get what im saying here because if you cant then im sorry but i cant explain it anymore clearly.

I'm not saying there arn't some people that in my view are evil and beat there wives. They can't do it under some excuse that it's a Christian thing to do though!

 

[Mr.Clark]

Christians believe that their God sent his only son down to earth as a human (his son was also himself, by the way) knowing that said son would be executed, come back as some form of zombie and then ascend to Heaven. His followers in later years would wage terrible wars against non-believers and people with no religious faith at all. They also fight amongst themselves as to who has the "correct" version of the faith. In some countries this still happens. (see the Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland)

Islam was invented by a man who personally waged several wars and killed vast numbers of people. Now followers think that it's OK to kill non-believers because their book says so (much like the Christians 500 years ago (and hell, some today still do)).

Neither of these sound like particularly inspiring ways to live.

Why not try the philosophy "do anything you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else" ?

Slightly simplistic, but you get the idea.

Why do you feel you need to belong to a certain group of people, as opposed to, say, a sports club or group of hobbyists? (not having a go, by the way. Honestly curious)


EDIT: And don't try and make out that the Bible is less harsh towards people than the Koran. I can find bible passages that condone slavery, rape, murder and child abuse if you really want.

 

[theleg]

ok ok i know, made a mistake you pedantic sod you...hows your gout by the way??.

Agonising...Im sitting here watching and feeling my joint grind itself into dust...Im not a happy camper.

 

[Shackley]

. . .
And don't try and make out that the Bible is less harsh towards people than the Koran. I can find bible passages that condone slavery, rape, murder and child abuse if you really want.

Surely not

 

[theleg]

EDIT: And don't try and make out that the Bible is less harsh towards people than the Koran. I can find bible passages that condone slavery, rape, murder and child abuse if you really want.

Yeah but to be fair..the christians realised this and wrote the new testament and now say that the old testament isnt applicable

 

[RDM]

Agonising...Im sitting here watching and feeling my joint grind itself into dust...Im not a happy camper.

Allopurinol. Helps me at least.

 

[theleg]

Allopurinol. Helps me at least.

I heard that can make it worse if you take it during an attack though T.T
and im too stupid to prevent instead of cure

 

[Shackley]

Yeah but to be fair..the christians realised this and wrote the new testament and now say that the old testament isnt applicable

In what way is the Old Testament no longer applicable?

Has it been exposed as a fraud like the Hitler Diaries or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

I thought that all of this stuff was the unaltered, original word of God?


edit - not the Hitler Diaries or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion of course, I know that they aren't down to God.

 

[theleg]

In what way is the Old Testament no longer applicable?

Has it been exposed as a fraud like the Hitler Diaries or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

I thought that all of this stuff was the unaltered, original word of God?


edit - not the Hitler Diaries or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion of course, I know that they aren't down to God.

Iunno...ask a christian..

but they always tell me that the old testament isnt what they follow any more that the whole evil pre christ god thing was innocent metaphor and all that.

 

[Mr.Clark]

EDIT: And don't try and make out that the Bible is less harsh towards people than the Koran. I can find bible passages that condone slavery, rape, murder and child abuse if you really want.

Yeah but to be fair..the christians realised this and wrote the new testament and now say that the old testament isnt applicable

Actually, Jesus himself said not to ignore "the old laws" (meaning the Old Testamant)

 

[Zip]

Iunno...ask a christian..

but they always tell me that the old testament isnt what they follow any more that the whole evil pre christ god thing was innocent metaphor and all that.

From what i think it means is in the Old testerment you had to sacrafice your best lamb and son and what not to get your sins forgiven and to please God.

But due to Jesus comeing down and sacrificing himself for us we no longer have to do that, we just have to ask him to forgive our sins etc..

 

[meghatronic]

Before you convert to Christianity, I recommend reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.

The result will likely be one of two things:

A) You are disgusted with Dawkins and feel like burning his book. Welcome to Christianity - go to your local church and discuss conversion with the Priest there.

B) You are disgusted with yourself for "ever believing any of this 'God' claptrap" and don't bother with religion ever again.

Either way you will probably be a lot happier in yourself and can get on with life in a way that *you* see fit.

Good Luck

J.

I used to like Dawkins... till I realised he loves himself far too much. I now try and settle somewhere in the middle.

EDIT - another author said of him and his latest book:
"weakest book to date, marred by its excessive reliance on bold assertion and rhetorical flourish, where the issues so clearly demand careful reflection and painstaking analysis, based on the best evidence available". He suggests that "All ideals – divine, transcendent, human, or invented – are capable of being abused. That’s just the way human nature is. And knowing this, we need to work out what to do about it, rather than lashing out uncritically at religion." (http://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/The_Dawkins_Delusion.aspx?ArticleID=50&PageID=47&RefPageID=11)

 

[theleg]

From what i think it means is in the Old testerment you had to sacrafice your best lamb and son and what not to get your sins forgiven and to please God.

But due to Jesus comeing down and sacrificing himself for us we no longer have to do that, we just have to ask him to forgive our sins etc..

Its a bit more than that...Old testament god was an evil son of a *****..vindictive, spiteful, angry, jealous..pretty much every bad trait you can imagine.. It wasnt just about getting forgiven...it was in his actions and commands too..

but then they decided to write the new testament and god become a happy chappy with a lovely temperament.

 

[theleg]

I used to like Dawkins... till I realised he loves himself far too much. I now try and settle somewhere in the middle.

EDIT - another author said of him and his latest book:
"weakest book to date, marred by its excessive reliance on bold assertion and rhetorical flourish, where the issues so clearly demand careful reflection and painstaking analysis, based on the best evidence available". He suggests that "All ideals – divine, transcendent, human, or invented – are capable of being abused. That’s just the way human nature is. And knowing this, we need to work out what to do about it, rather than lashing out uncritically at religion." (http://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/The_Dawkins_Delusion.aspx?ArticleID=50&PageID=47&RefPageID=11)

Is that quote not from a christian dude?

 

[Sleepy]

Actually, Jesus himself said not to ignore "the old laws" (meaning the Old Testamant)

Actually the NT has conflicting views on the issue:

Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:18-19

The law and the prophets were until John [the Baptist]: since that time the kingdom of heaven is preached. Luke 16:16

It reflects the early conflicts within the xianity between James and Pauls differing concepts of what xianity should become.

 

[Beren]

In what way is the Old Testament no longer applicable?

Has it been exposed as a fraud like the Hitler Diaries or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

I thought that all of this stuff was the unaltered, original word of God?


edit - not the Hitler Diaries or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion of course, I know that they aren't down to God.

Quite simple really it's called being a Christian rather than being a Jew.

Bulldog - I don't think we really got away from God being awesome in the New Testament either, He did kill off his Son to give us a last chance - zapped a few others for saying the wrong thing in curch - promised eternal damnation for anyone that didn't follow Christ - and let the second coming delay until after someone though Big brother was a good idea.

Sorry missed one of Spawns posts in a page change so hadn't responded to most of it.

I dont expect you to really as it would be highly unfair i think. As for them nothing to do with being Christian, i suggest you do some serious research on the Crusades and i think you find they had a hell of a lot to do with Christianity as a whole. I mean the term, getting back the Holy land doesnt have any religious/christian connotations does it not??.

I said and meant that the crusades were not a christian act. They were a perversion and should be treated as such. I think you should do some serious research into Christianity if you think there are any possible grounds to go to war in the New Testament.

Like i said, if you did any sort of research then you will find that Islam does not condone wife beating...if anything there are rules that must be followed when chastising your wife etc.

Yes it does. I have already quoted one passage from the Quran stating it, there are others, including your prophet Mohammed hitting a women in the chest.

 

[theleg]

Bulldog - I don't think we really got away from God being awesome in the New Testament either, He did kill off his Son to give us a last chance - zapped a few others for saying the wrong thing in curch - promised eternal damnation for anyone that didn't follow Christ - and let the second coming delay until after someone though Big brother was a good idea..

Hes a much nicer bloke in the new testament though...Id buy the new god a drink but id kick the old god in the nads.