Religious Help!
- Thread starter DuffMan
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Soldato
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Indeed.... he's Professor of Historical Theology at Oxford University.Balddog said:
"Alister McGrath is a former atheist, who converted to Christianity at Oxford University. He retains a high degree of interest in atheism, particularly forms of atheism which claim to be grounded in the natural sciences."
But even so. Two sides to every coin.
cleanbluesky said:
Dont think ive said i know of any other ideology or whatever fancy word you want to use instead of faith/religion, condones such an activity ie wife-beating.
As for your other questions, please dont tell your being serious.....why would you even ask such a question CBS??, do you really feel the need to post such silly trollish questions??. But for arguements sake i would really like you to point out where i have even intimated such a thought??.....or does it fit in with your view that all muslims are terrorists and wife beaters??.
/me bangs head against my desk
Balddog said:
Sorry to hear that mate
...hope it gets better soon.../me fluffles Balddog
Beren said:
Fair enough if thats how you see it, i tend to see it as a christian act and i dont know about the New Testament, i havent really studied it tbh so rather not make any unfounded comments upon something that i have no knowledge of
.As for treating the crusades as a perversion??..why should they be treated as a perversion??. They were sanctioned by the Church/Pope so were christian acts...
Actually you have given me an idea, i can now easily dismiss these terrorist acts are a perversion of the Islamic faith, which in reality are. Perverting the real interpretation of islam or taking certain passages out of context.
For your info Beren i have studied the Crusades quite a bit from the christian point of view and muslim point of view...but i dont think any of the sides were right in what they set out to achieve..
Woweee gone completely OT though
....apologies to the OP 
If you feel that Islam isnt for you then fair enough...no one can force you to practise Islam...well i should hope not.
Soldato
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Spawn said:
Neither do I.
Where have I said that you have intimated such a thought? Where have I alleged that all muslims are terrorists and wife beaters?
Now that we've got that out of the way, I like to ask that question of a few of the Muslims on this board just to get the to hopefully denounce one of the rules within their religion. I hope to get them to think for themselves rather than saying "What do I think of this... what does the Koran say... I think what the Koran says..."
/me bangs head against my desk
Do it like you mean it!
Spawn said:As for treating the crusades as a perversion??..why should they be treated as a perversion??. They were sanctioned by the Church/Pope so were christian acts...
Actually you have given me an idea, i can now easily dismiss these terrorist acts are a perversion of the Islamic faith, which in reality are. Perverting the real interpretation of islam or taking certain passages out of context.
For your info Beren i have studied the Crusades quite a bit from the christian point of view and muslim point of view...but i dont think any of the sides were right in what they set out to achieve..
Woweee gone completely OT though
What they did goes completely against Christian teaching, yet they did it in the name of Christianity. Which is why I call it a perversion. I completely agree that terrorist acts should be dismissed as a perversion of Islam.
And yes we have gone a long way OT, but since the OP hasn't posted anything much back into the thread I'm guessing he already has the answers he was looking for.
Beren said:
Its not all bad in respect to husbands and wives in islam, you shouldnt really selectively quote the bad things in islam and quote only the good in the bible.Beating is a last resort and even then its isnt beating as we know it today, dont agree with it personally as i would never harm a woman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_obligations_of_spouses_in_Islam
There are religions built up around the teachings of christ, I am not sure how happy he would be about wars in the name of god, huge wealth held by the church while people starve and so on.
I think he would be far happier if we all followed the very simple lesson of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Nothing more is needed. No need to go to church, no need to pray, no need to follow religious trappings and dogma. Simply treat everyone else in the same way that you would like them to treat you and in my opinion you'd be following the word of Christ and be a christian.
If we all lived that way there would be no war, no poverty, no starving people and so on. I don't think Jesus would care less if you never went to church, never prayed, never gave thanks to god and so on if you simply treated everyone else as well as you would like others to treat you.
Using the above example you would not want your wife to beat you for disobeying her so don't beat her, you would not want your wife to issue you with orders and expect you to obey her so don't issue her with orders and demand she obeys you.
I think he would be far happier if we all followed the very simple lesson of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Nothing more is needed. No need to go to church, no need to pray, no need to follow religious trappings and dogma. Simply treat everyone else in the same way that you would like them to treat you and in my opinion you'd be following the word of Christ and be a christian.
If we all lived that way there would be no war, no poverty, no starving people and so on. I don't think Jesus would care less if you never went to church, never prayed, never gave thanks to god and so on if you simply treated everyone else as well as you would like others to treat you.
Using the above example you would not want your wife to beat you for disobeying her so don't beat her, you would not want your wife to issue you with orders and expect you to obey her so don't issue her with orders and demand she obeys you.
All religions were created in times of need within someones imagination, that person then suggested this idea to others and the main religions developed and spread.
They are figments of peoples imagination used to give people hope in times of need.
(Not that it's a bad thing, it's just my view on religion.)
They are figments of peoples imagination used to give people hope in times of need.
(Not that it's a bad thing, it's just my view on religion.)
Zip said:From what i think it means is in the Old testerment you had to sacrafice your best lamb and son and what not to get your sins forgiven and to please God.
But due to Jesus comeing down and sacrificing himself for us we no longer have to do that, we just have to ask him to forgive our sins etc..
Ah, the killing of your first son was a bit too brutal for civilised humanity so they had to make a Bible 2.0?
Raikiri said:Ah, the killing of your first son was a bit too brutal for civilised humanity so they had to make a Bible 2.0?
Before Jesus there were no christians...... Christians are followers of the teachings of christ..... it is not complicated.
Most christians would say that Jesus came to give the true message of God because the people had misunderstood God up until then.
The nicest bit about Christianity (Catholicism at least) is the idea of Confession.
Sinner : "Dear God, I have just wiped out millions of people, but I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to and I promise I will never do it again."
God : "No sweat, just say three 'Hail Virgins', pop a few pence in the collection plate and you're forgiven."
Not long after . . .
Sinner : "Dear God, I have just, etc., etc., etc."
So, so understanding.
Sinner : "Dear God, I have just wiped out millions of people, but I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to and I promise I will never do it again."
God : "No sweat, just say three 'Hail Virgins', pop a few pence in the collection plate and you're forgiven."
Not long after . . .
Sinner : "Dear God, I have just, etc., etc., etc."
So, so understanding.
If there wern't things I didn't agree on in Islam that I could quote maybe I'd choose to believe in it. There are, I don't. The wikipedia entry you quoted to me says...wohoo said:
"Islam advocates a subservient relationship between husband and wife."
and
"However, in case of rebellious behaviour, the husband is asked to urge his wife to mend her ways, to refuse to share their beds and husbands are allowed to admonish their wives by beating."
On the subject of beatings
"The incidence in many Muslim-majority countries (where women hide their bruises and little is ever reported to authorities) is uncertain, but believed to be great by Muslim feminists. One recent study, in Syria, found that 25% of the married women surveyed said that they had been beaten by their husbands. [1] The World Health Organization reports high levels of domestic abuse in Muslim countries with, for instance, over half of all Palestinian women reporting being beaten in the previous year. Not only do more Muslim women report being beaten than most non-Muslim women, the frequency of such beatings is usually much higher as well."
I don't quite get why you are quoting wikipedia back to me when it says exactly what I was quoting in the first place, in the first paragraph!
As far as quoting only the good from the bible, the passage I quoted is THE passage in the New Testament concerning how husband and wife should interact. There is no other place to go in the New Testament to look for a quote on how it should work.
As far as 'beating as we understand it today'... I don't understand beating, and don't want to. As far as I am concerned beating is just not acceptable.
I am not arguing that it is a last resort. That it is something that is condoned at all in the Quran is a clear difference between Islam and Christianity however.
:edit:
Having done a some more reading into the subject I can offer you an article that might have saved your bacon if you had posted it though. http://www.karamah.org/docs/DomViolfinal.pdf
I don't agree with the translation of the first passage and it chooses to put a very positive light on things, but I think it might be closer to what you wanted to say.
Shackley: The Catholic idea of confession really is a bit bonkers in my opinion.
cleanbluesky said:
Then whats your point Mr Psychology man??
cleanbluesky said:
Really??, do you think that your a saviour for all us poor mis-guided muslims??..
. Thanks for the offer but really no thanks...LOL @ CBS trying to save us poor mis-guided brainwashed muslims from the horrors of Islam
cleanbluesky said:
Sadly i wish it was your head that i could bang on desk rather than mine. But ill make do with a few sketches of you, that i drew yesterday and poke holes through your seemingly large ego
.Hmm you're advocating a lot of violence towards others today.Spawn said:Sadly i wish it was your head that i could bang on desk rather than mine. But ill make do with a few sketches of you, that i drew yesterday and poke holes through your seemingly large ego
Not very christian of you.
Soldato
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Spawn said:Sadly i wish it was your head that i could bang on desk rather than mine. But ill make do with a few sketches of you, that i drew yesterday and poke holes through your seemingly large ego
You realise that's idolatry.
Cut back on the chocolate before bedtime Spawn...
DuffMan said:
Which Bible did you read ? There are loads of different versions - all with different endings
I think the most common one in the UK is the King James edition which isn't exactly an accurate representation of the original bible by all accounts. The version you identify mostly with will probably point you in the direction of what part of Christianity you want to consider....