Relocation to Spain Experience

[Martynt74]

Big few days. Friday my wife got her residency. Was relatively straight forward. We then walked around Alicante for some food. Had millions of options and yet ended up in Burger King! My wifes not been feeling great recently and has been struggling to eat due to a hernia in her oesophegus. She's also been hit by a few bugs after eating which we wonder if it's down to water so decided BK was likely a safe risk free choice.

Speaking to the company who we used for her residency, getting me added should be an easy process. I just need to get a digital certificate and then we complete a form at the local town hall to identify me as her dependant. Sounds like easy process, but we'll see!

Today we on the Padron (council register) for our local town. This means we can register for the local doctors etc, as well as get them to update my status as above.

House plans are nearing completion. Today they got made a lot simpler as the builder who makes the house with a big underbuild has said that he'll only build on land that he owns, rather than us buying the plot and then building ourselves. As he has no available plots which suit us, removing him from the equation makes things easy!

This is the render of the house we're likely to go with and floorplan. Only variations are that we've flipped it, so that the master suite is on the left. Also moving the front door to the other side of the house rather than inline with the terrace and making the utility room bigger.

This is the floorplan

It's a more modern design that what we'd have preferred, but to get to build a house we want internally and with decent building materials it's a compromise we're happy to have. There are things we can do outside to make it less clinical.

 

[Martynt74]

Slowly adjusting to the frustrating nature of the process, but it's not fun!

I needed to apply for my Digital Certificate, kind of the equivalent of the Government Gateway in the UK. I started it online as per a guide i found, only to then find that i need to prove my identity in person at an office 40 minutes away. Spoke to someone who mentioned the local town hall can do it for me. Went down there and walked out 5 minutes later with my certificate code to install on my laptop at home and all sorted. No idea why the website made it so difficult to just do myself. Seems that the Town Hall person uses a different agency to create the certificate.

Currently getting conflicting info around registering my residency as a family member of an EU citizen. One person said it's just done online, everything else conflicts this and says i need to fill in a form, pay the fee and then go to the same place my wife did (foreigners office). The latter is what i'd have expected so have filled in the forms. Then went to make the appointment. It takes you through about 5 pages of fields to update name/address etc and then when you get to the bit that says "Book an Appointment" it pops up with "Sorry none are available. Try another time" but then you have to re-fill the whole 5 pages of fields to find out whether an appointment is available at that point!

It's the booking of the appointment where i paid someone to sort for me as i think these companies just have someone constantly checking (they're released at random times). However the one i used for my NIE and wifes residency don't have a service for family re-unification and won't help
There are other companies who try and charge €500 for this service but screw them!

 

[Martynt74]

Hmm i *think* i've submitted my application online. However when it gave me a link to download my application as proof it gave me an error and bombed out. I've got a screenshot so hoping that's sufficient. However i have no confirmation email/text, and can't see any record of the application on the online portal so have no idea how to check when/if it's approved!

 

[Martynt74]

Are you happy to share the name of the firm you used?

The reason I ask is that apparently Spain passed a law in 2022 "The Democratic Memory Law" that, amongst other things, allows direct descendents of people that fought with the International Brigade to gain Spanish Citizenship without renouncing their current citizenship. Both my grandparents were medics during the Spanish civil war so I should qualify.

I'd love to talk to a specialist that could confirm if this is possible or if anyone has already succeeded - I imagine being the first would be expensive!

I've done most myself, although used a company called MyNIE.com for the appointment, not sure they're full residency experts though.

There's quite a few Facebook groups with experts giving advice though if you look for Spanish Residency.

Could also try these

Home | Moving to Spain | GoSpain

GoSpain - information and advice for people moving to or living in Spain, NLV, TIE, translations, apostille, including guidance on residency, healthcare, insurance, visas, and buying property in Spain.

www.gospain.co.uk

 

[Martynt74]

Whoop, and now have my social security number. Have to say the digital certificate is actually a brilliant system for logging in!

In other news, i got my dads old car (Citroen C3) at the weekend. It's a weird one, he bought it 10 years ago. Then in 2018 he bought his Jaguar F Pace, but never liked it much as it's too big. Then around June time they bought a newer Citroen C3, so i said i'd buy the old one. It's diesel and so more economical than the Jeep. However when we arrived we discovered he still seemed to be using this more than any other car. In his words "It's better to drive and because it's old it doesn't need looking after so can be used for tip runs/beach trips"

As such i'm now on the hunt for an old estate. I ummed and ahed about it last month, but think it's the right thing to do. I've done a few trips picking up bits of wood and stuff and the Jeep isn't ideal for that. Something like an old 2.0 diesel barge will be a handy second car. Especially as we start buying furniture/plants etc for the new house.

 

[Martynt74]

The police are the same here, to exchange your licence (don't forget to do this if you haven't already!) you need to book an appointment but they never answer the phone and rarely reply to emails (I got a reply 2 months after emailing for a slot) so I just turned up with about 100 other randoms and queued and was seen within half an hour .

Currently a sore subject as i seem to have lost my wifes driving licence

 

[Martynt74]

Just because i've not posted for a little while. There's a thread in Home & Garden where i've been debating floor plans and adjustments to the above.

We've narrowed plots down massively. I initially had around 30 i was interested in, but having driven out to some, and ruled out others due to price we're down to about 5 possibilities now. It helped that i really like the 40,000m2 plot in La Romana, so had a real contender to compare others against rather than having a lot on the "yeah that's ok" pile.

The main factor now is whether we can get contact from the sellers of 2 other options in a place called Barbarroja. We found one of them at random on Sunday and i liked it, it sits in a great part of the valley and so likely gets the evening sun better than the La Romana one. However how important that is when you're living here and not craving sun as much i don't know. There are 2 options in Barbarroja

1 - Plot of 12,000m2 for sale for €36k that we found on Sunday. This is a cheaper overall price vs the La Romana one, but higher cost/m2. I do love the idea of a huge plot, but then this one also has proper plumbed in drinking water which is fairly rare. Downside was we were there last night and could hear some road noise. Not a busy road, but the wind seemed to carry what few cars went past.
2 - A second plot i found online. This is 17,000m2 for €25k, with the option to buy a second adjacent plot of another 10,000m2 for €19k. This would be awesome. Big plot, really cheap price and "maybe" drinking water. The downside is that even the selling agent doesn't have any information on it and things move slow here and we're keen to try and get something resolved before Christmas so we can them get planning permission in.

I think our thought process is.

1 - Find out more info on the 12,000m2 plot. Make sure it's available, find out what other plots are around and could be developed
2 - Give it 2 weeks for the bigger/cheaper plot to get back to us
3 - Make a decision and start negotiations


In typical Spanish style. I dropped the Jeep off at the garage last Tuesday. It's now Thursday and i've heard nothing. They weren't even meant to be doing any work, just checking over a few things and getting back to me with a price!

 

[Martynt74]

So, a few updates. I got to speak to the person with the 2 plots for sale. It's actually a little bigger than advertised and comes to 31,000m2. She also has around 90,000 in total available although my wife might have something to say about that It also has a cave house in a derelict state on one plot which is very cool.

It's firmly in the lead for me, however a recent discussion with someone suggested that the local council have delays of up to 2 years for planning permission to be granted. That's not something i'm willing to put up with, regardless of how much i like the plot sadly. Have asked if the builder can make some enquiries directly with the planning office.


Our estate agent then gave me a call and asked if i was free at 12pm to see a few plots. I met up with him in the local town, only to find he was with the local mayor. This guy knows about everyone interested in selling and so knows of plots not advertised for sale. We jumped in his car and drove around with him pointing out certain plots and explaining the background. I was sat in the back happy with myself for understanding some of the conversation going on in the front.

A few were possible contenders, but the best for me was very close to town, and i fear will be priced accordingly. Since proximity to town isn't something we value, it might be too expensive for what we value it at. The plus side is that with a few handshakes, this guy could probably push planning permission through very quickly and save us multiple months in waiting


We've given ourselves this weekend to make a decision. We have seen multiple plots which we would be perfectly happy with, and i think are now being hyper critical of them to pick flaws that aren't really flaws.

 

[Martynt74]

Hyper critical is the way to be, when you're buying a house!

Yeah true.

This is on the 40,000 plot in La Romana, we can't really fault it. The only little niggle is that it sits behind a hill, and so you don't get the sun in the morning until around 30 minutes later than where we currently are. At the moment that feels like a big deal because we're still in the "crave the sun" phase, but in reality it probably isn't a bad thing.

We went to the plot Saturday morning around 7:30 to check the sunrise and took some photos.

View from the road of the "middle" of the plot

Plot on the right of the road looking towards the town

Pretty much goes towards the white building in the distance

Sunrise shot

 

[Martynt74]

It becomes relative.
You adjust.

I remember years ago visiting Spain for halfterm February. We were in shorts and tshirts, the Spanish in fur coats etc...

Yeah, i'll now quite happily wander around in a hoodie and feel cold when it's 18C outside. I will however religiously be in shorts because "i'm one of those"

 

[Martynt74]

Thought you were orienting mainly towards West - which is which view -

heat never gets old, and having a balmy bedroom - which is brief/non-existant in the UK, and usual problem, being cooling it without mosquitos visiting.

The first picture from the road to the dip in the mountains is west which i think is where we'd orient towards.

 

[Martynt74]

so .... since you are an accountant

post brexit what is the level of cross recognition of government saving plans like ISA's - does Spain respect any tax free returns on them ?
or, if you withdraw money, are they going to analyse&tax capital gains.

I'm currently in opposite situation where gains in French saving schemes are often taxed at source/17% ... and I'd like to see HMRC happy that dues were payed
(if I provide evidence of monies source.)

Similar to you. Everything is taxed here, so you have to declare everything (Pensions, UK benefits, Interest) etc and then are taxed on worldwide earnings.

As far as i'm aware, there is very little in the way of tax efficient saving schemes here, but it's not something i've explored much as of yet. My main concern is to try and bring private pensions into Spain without being taxed on it!

 

[Martynt74]

Luckily as long as i sell by the end of the year i'm ok as i won't be tax resident in Spain until the 1st January.

 

[Martynt74]

How do/will you present the paper trail of monies from the UK to the Spanish authorities
(I'd used hifx for some preferential smaller monetary exchanges between international accounts, but maybe need to transfer directly from a national eu bank, for transparency, a, chain of trust )

Not too sure to be honest. The one of the land plots (probably most likely purchase) is from an English seller, so it makes sense to just transfer GBP in the UK. I assume as long as they confirm receipt and we have proof of transfer then there shouldn't be a problem.

For the building work, we'll pay the builder direct so unsure if there's the same money laundering checks as in the UK.

 

[Martynt74]

I looked into moving to buying a place in Spain and couldnt believe how much they tax everything. Personal allowances are lower and they tax pensions and everything back home in the UK. I eventually bought a place in Turkey. They don't tax pension there. I might move there one day but happy to have it as a Holiday home at the moment. I also plan to keep an eye one Spain but things are harder moving there since Brexit. Always looking for somewhere recommended as my In Laws bought in the mountains near Iznaja and it's boiling in summer and freezing in Winter.

Yeah, i worked out i'll be taxed around an extra 13% compared to the UK. My wife is affected worse as her income is lower, but due to self employment fees taking a high proportion, she's taxed around 25% vs closer to 10% in the UK (once taking into account allowances etc). There are some up sides though, i got our electric bill yesterday and it was €58 for 2 months. Given we both work from home it's a fraction of what we spent in the UK!

We've still not had much cold yet. Yesterday was 23C. It gets cold inside the houses as it's the sun that's warm, but that's the driver being building a modern efficient house which will regulate temperature much better.

 

[Martynt74]

Cheers, will have a look at that. Although with being employed through a Spanish company i've just used the Spanish Salary Take Home calculators that are around.

 

[Martynt74]

It baffles me why banks aren't more competitive, especially those with an international presence like Santander/HSBC. I've heard of Currencies Direct. I should probably compare against WISE as even a small difference can add up quick on £100k. At the moment, fees are around £21 on a £5000 transfer.

Some good news recently. The builder has confirmed his guy at the bank has approved us for a mortgage based on being Spanish tax residents. Given i've spoken to around 5 brokers who've told me it's impossible without 12 months history, it's a nice relief. There's talks of the EU dropping interest rates too in 2024 so hopefully a mortgage comes in a decent chunk lower than expected by the time we need to draw it.

One thing i don't think i've mentioned. Is how nice it is to have longer days in winter. Even now at almost the shortest day of the year, the sun rises around 8am and it doesn't get dark until 6pm. Means i can finish work and do stuff outside before it's pitch black. I know the offset is now having the long days in Summer which i did used to love, but in reality there's no need for a 4am sunrise most of the time. From what i've heard it's more like 5am-9pm in July. Given the choice i'd take 10hrs a day in the winter over a slightly shorter summer day.

 

[Martynt74]

Why they aren't using GM mosquitoes to control the population I have no idea.

Might set up a farm for these things on the plot!


Looks like we're settled on the La Romana plot. The other seller turned out to be mental, and jumped from 45k to 100k, unsure if this is because we're English, although she insists the price was wrong with the agents. What she actually wants isn't a bad price by any means, but at closer to market value we preferred the La Romana plot. It doesn't have electric and the cave house i liked the idea of, but it's much more sheltered from the wind which feels important!

 

[Martynt74]

Little update. Not a huge amount has changed here.

• I had an email to ask for more info on my residency, giving me 10 days. Almost impossible to find a place to submit the documents as the online link in the PDF didn't work. *Think* i've sorted it. Just waiting for a response.
• We've settled on the big 40,000m2 plot of land. Currently in the process of negotiation and purchase structure - More on this later
• I bought a new car. A 2008 Kia Sportage. Has a towbar and roof racks. Is huge inside and will work nicely for long journeys and hauling stuff around
• The kids came out for Christmas. Weird sitting out on Christmas Day in 20C sunshine at a bar with a beer
• To encourage moves with the builder we signed the contract for the build and paid the initial deposit

Now onto the land. As i think i've mentioned. It's 3 plots of land. Plot 33 (19,000m2) ,34 (16,000m2) and 35 (5500m2)

The initial plan was to buy Plot 33 and build on it. However following a meeting with the architect, he believes Plot 34 is better as it has a good flat section to minimise groundwork costs and is slightly elevated for better views. Therefore we agreed to buy plot 34 and 35 initially with an agreement we'd then buy 33 later on. The price being €2.5m2 for the first 2 plots and then €1.5m2 for plot 33 to average close to €2m2 overall.
I then figured that the "extra" cost was only €30k and we can mortgage 50% of the land. So for a €15k initial outlay, it makes sense and is tidier for everyone to get it done and dusted. Once this plan was made, i decided that instead of a 50m2 garage, i'd change it's use to a 50m2 casita (little house) for guests with 2 bedrooms and a bathroom. The builder agreed he could build this quicker than the main house, and so we could move into this ahead of the completion to save paying €1300 a month in rent.

Everything then sounded like it was going swimmingly. Until this morning when i get an email from the builder saying the bank may have an issue with building over 2 plots, and wouldn't mortgage the land at 50% for any land without a building on. I'm now seeing if i can structure the land purchase where the 15,000m2 plot costs €4m2 and the others at a low price. We then get a mortgage valuation at a higher price (€4/m2 is still a decent market price so shouldn't raise any eyebrows)

Now just waiting to hear back.

On other matters, this rental runs out at the end of June, and we're struggling finding anything for the summer months that aren't at huge summer holiday weekly prices. We might have something but will mean having to take it from March and giving notice on this place. We had one lined up but after initially giving a decent price, he decided to double it

 

[Martynt74]

Question, how did you guys get permission to live in Spain after Brexit?
What about your pension credits.

My wife has Irish grandparents so we applied for her citizenship back in 2022. Pension credits i need to look into, but she has 33/35 years and we can manually top up the 2 years.

I've got 18 years, which can count towards the Spanish pension requirements. The Spanish pension is massively better than the UK, so i should be good.

does larger area of land purchase incur any significant ongoing yearly land/area based tax,

It does, but it's negligible.