Retailer Confirms PS3 Price Cut
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The problem isn't about it being bad value per se. It's a well built piece of kit that runs and looks lovely. It's just expensive that's all. A lot of people won't pay 400 or so for a console no matter how shiney the games are, especially if there are competitors offering the same thing for much less. As another poster said earlier, there is a difference between being expensive and being bad value.
I agree. I don't think it's a lack of games which is holding back sales but the price. I dont think that if 360 did drop the price at the same time as Sony it would make too big a difference either. There are a lot of people who decided they want a PS3 a long time ago and are just waiting for it to become affordable to them.KNiVES said:
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That's a good point about the price of the ps3 holding it back - it's restricted to such a small segment of the market atm. Maybe Sony just badly misjudged how the market was going after the shift to 20somethings buying playstations rather than teenagers.... Fact is they need to get a good userbase if they're going to make any headway this generation. There's always a sweet spot cost-wise, and the Wii is much closer to it right now, as is the ps2...wonder how many of them they're selling these days.
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@Jihad
is that based on anything you've heard? Would love to see MGS on the 360
Rumours have been around for around the last 9-15 months depending on sources, these include credible magazines, websites and blogs. One thing that hasn't come out of it is a denial from Microsoft, Sony or Konami.Monkey Puzzle said:@Jihad is that based on anything you've heard? Would love to see MGS on the 360
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NokkonWud said:
The official line about multi platform is this, from Kojima himself
The PS3 is like the theatre, it's a little bit high-priced but it has to be high quality as well. The 360 is a DVD, it still needs to be high quality but you need more variations, while the Wii is almost like a TV channel, because every game you have it with your family".
QUOTE(Kojima)
"But like I said, MGS4 is aimed for the movie theatre, it's aimed for the PS3, so the game's scenario and graphics need this theatre-type hardware. It's when a producer has a game that can work on the 'DVD level' that a game will go multiplatform",
Of course things change, but as one PS3 developer has said the cost of porting a game like this to another platform, one which would need multple disks would possibly put developers off. Especially a game that has only sold well on Sony systems. If Konami wanted to make more money from the the game they wouldnt port it to the 360, the Wii, PC and PS2 would be more lucrative markets IMO. Maybe in the near future there will be a "DVD" type game for the 360 based on MGS4 I think this is very likely to be announced at E3 if its going to happen.
The PS3 at this point in time needs a decent price drop, but I don't think Sony are too worried about sales, industry pressure is telling them to offer a price cut. I believe the PS3 was built with a 5-7+ year cycle in mind so sales now are not of great concern.The issue that arises is that Sony will struggle to hold on to the big sellers like GTA/MGS/GT unless being produced by their in house teams.
So the dilemma they face is do they sit tight for the next 2 years or so and hope they can hold on to the exclusives they have that will hopefully sell the system, or do they slash the price to gain the consumers now rather than later?
I believe that is why Sony's own developers have been hard at work trying to get they own software out of the door, and pretty much letting 3rd party developers get on with it (iffy ports?).
You only have to look at the Blu-Ray support to see how hard Sony are pushing the PS3 in the backround. Now they need to be pushing the games side, once both are established the console will sell itself hopefully with a more attractive price
So the dilemma they face is do they sit tight for the next 2 years or so and hope they can hold on to the exclusives they have that will hopefully sell the system, or do they slash the price to gain the consumers now rather than later?
I believe that is why Sony's own developers have been hard at work trying to get they own software out of the door, and pretty much letting 3rd party developers get on with it (iffy ports?).
You only have to look at the Blu-Ray support to see how hard Sony are pushing the PS3 in the backround. Now they need to be pushing the games side, once both are established the console will sell itself hopefully with a more attractive price
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Joebob said:I couldn't disagree more with most of what you said, but then we all have our own views on what the future holds
What exactly do you disagree with?.
Cost
1a) The PS3 is too expensive.... especially in Euro regions. It has a global value of £300 at the dollar rate for retail, yet we pay up to £400 here.
1b) Average middle/working class families cannot afford to blow £400 + games on a console when interest rates keep rising, the cost of living goes up etc.
1c) The PS3 is good value (for what it can do) at its Dollar value i.e £300, which is what it is worth effectively. However, it is still expensive, and more so when compared to the other console competition.
1d) At the end of the day it is a console, people/families want it to play games, people already have capeable PCs for media, music, itunes, gaming, internet browsing, office (significantly more so than when the PS1/PS2 were launched), the PS3 may be able to act as a media centre but I would imagine this is still a limited end of the market when looking at the cost £££ of fully utilising/integrating these features (HD TV, Surround Sound system etc).
1e) It is sold by computer games shops, hence people expect it to be a games console and for the price it is not such an attractive option.
Games
2) It has a poor catalogue of games at the moment. Young kids already have a PS2 which is a cheaper option and has a big catalogue of kid games. Kids play on consoles, its a major chunk of the market. The PS3 is in competition with its own predecessor. Why would kids/parents need to/want to replace their PS2 with a PS3 so they can play the PS2 games?
BR
3) Blu Ray is not the selling feature Sony want it to be at the moment. It may be outselling HD DVD afaik but when you can buy a DVD player for £20 and latest DVDs for £5 it hardly sells it for the average family. The quality difference is there but its not like the VHS to DVD transition. At the moment Blu Ray and HD DVD is a limited but growing market.
Future
4) Sony are looking long term at the investment and milking the prices for as long as they can...in the UK they are getting away with as much as they can £££. They have already lost out on some of the key exclusives. This isn't the era of the PS2...technology as moved on a lot, there is greater commercial competition from many areas for the money people spend, like mobile phones, ipods etc.
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Any news on a UK price cut or are Sony ******* us over again cos we stupidly keep buying Sony products?
msmalls74 said:
Yes, but if you look at MGS4 it also has ridiculously low-resolution textures in a lot of places on all of the footage I have seen. The number 1 reason for low-quality textures? Space.
Saying that, I've seen what they did with The Darkness and Gears of War, so you can still get a lot of textures anyway.
mrk1@1 said:
It would be helpful if you included tax with pricing - ie its more like £360 all told (ok still not great but thats VAT killing the price not Sony) . A Price cut to this level would go down well , but I cant see any reason why Sony need to sell it at even more of a loss ie around £300 inc VAT (maybe in a year's time if software choice is still bad, but come Christmas there is reputed to be a huge amount of games coming)
I do agree with the cost of living, and average families not being able to afford this - but put it another way, with a 33% failure rate on the X360 which is worse, having somethign in for repair (think about Xmas time especially when it will be stressed to the limit) or having fewer games. Remember with new purchase, a family isnt likely to go and but a whole handful of games anyway - I would bet the usual amount to be two or three bought with any console. I honestly dont know which is better (failure rate & cheap purchase price or reliability & expensive) I have both consoles but until MS get their quality control a lot better, it makes it a tougher decision
I dont know abotu other people / families- but I would guess that the biggest screen in most houses is the shared tv in the living room. So Playing games, watching movies, even showing off family holiday snaps is always going to be better on the largest screen. Now maybe individually they arent worth anything, but especially if you have a young family etc I would suggest that all of these together makes the PS3 potentially more viable (not to mention some of the fabulous kids movies already available on blu-ray)
Its not only sold by computer games shops - all the big retailers /department stores have them in their tv sections.
The PS3 I believe has been reported to being the sole reason why BR's are outselling HD-DVD's by about 3-1. Now any new format is never going to outsell something that has been a standard for 7 years or more, especiallly of the popularity of DVD. The price of each disc isnt helping but when you consider the average price of a new release on DVd is currently £17 about, and Hd-DVD/BR its around £25 (yes there are some considerably cheaper but thats a guestimate from the 60-70 hidef discs I have bought in the last few months) .....also I have found on the odd occasion that the difference in price between a BR disc and standard DVD is £1-2 (with this difference why would anyone want to buy a dvd).
Yes it is a limited but growing market, completely agree and the format war itself isnt helping Sony either (and possibly the PS3 as well) and I certainly dont blame any people sitting on the fence for not investing in such a new technology when the competition could still win the hd disc "war". There is an decernable difference in the visual quality but its highly dependant on the equipment you are using /room details/ viewing distance etc etc and no it isnt the leap that vhs was to dvd (until you compare a standard dvd (non upscaled) being played on a large 1080p screen - this can be completely unwatchable. Disc production can also be a big let down on certain releases.
Audio though is where imo the next generation is getting the best - uncompressed surround sound is phenomenal when the soundtrack suits.
When Home / Little Big Planet is released on the PS3 as a free download in October worldwide, I think this could be the "killer app" which could signify whether Sony are onto a real winner or not. This Christmas in general is huge, if a lot more games are out by the end of November/ early Dec then the whole market could turn turtle.
I know I am a technology freek and think the PS3 is worth every penny - but I can easily see how a family would struggle to afford it at its present price. If Sony can lower it to around £350 this would be a bargain (but could kill off Sony console division in the process due to losses made) - The X360 could kill off the competition if only it was reliable (and widely publicised as reliable also) - the only thing I have against the wii is that it looks fabulously fun but its comaratively the same price as the X360, and the software is roughly the same price - yet its with last gen technology (ie cost a lot less to manufacture)
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FrankJH said:
That wasn't what I was getting at, the actual retail value (not cost) of the console is the value without tax in real terms.
That is true but the kids will may/mostly have the console in the bedroom with a smaller non HD tv. Will be different with adults and techies rather than average familes
.Of course... all the consoles are... but I would imagine the average family isn't so technically minded they differentiate between a console and a media hub. They see it in a computer games shop or games section in a supermarket, electronic store etc and it is seen as a console.
Most DVDs can be picked up at the supermarkets + other places for £7-£10ish on new release (which is a large customer base). Special editions are more. Not sure how the US pricing etc is though but looking online it is roughly the same as the UK.
I doubt that many people outside of the fourms which is only a few thousand really are told or even know about the failure rates of the 360 assuming they really are that high. Its not part of the shop sales pitch, thats for sure
+ the forum polls and failure reports will be biassed towards people signing up to complain, get help etc. I know of 9 360s between family and friends, some launch day some later, none of which have showed a problem etc. There is still an unacceptable failure rate for the 360 though whether it is 10%-30%.
Looking at recent portable (DS/PSP) sales figures, they must be really taking a chunk of the console market too for price vs features.
the only thing I have against the wii is that it looks fabulously fun but its comaratively the same price as the X360, and the software is roughly the same price - yet its with last gen technology (ie cost a lot less to manufacture)
I tbh don't like the wii, I have tried one, to me the novelty wares off very quickly, I would rather go bowling than simulate it on a console etc. But it is cheap, gets good reports, fun for a bit or a bit longer depending on the user and hence it sells.
I think the PS3 is being sold as a luxury item/console/media device in a competetive market and driving the real and percieved cost up vs its utility. I don't think the wii or 360 are marketed in the same way so possibly this differentiation has not been as beneficial as Sony would have liked.
At the end of the day, I think Sony will have to se a significant price drop to remain competetive. As far as I know the 360 is now in profit per unit and the Wii deffinately is.
Sorry, I should have explained more why I disagreed with your original post.mrk1@1 said:
I agree with the fact that it's too expensive, but I think it has a decent selection of games for this far into it's launch and there's a whole lot of good games due out soon.mrk1@1 said:
I completely disagree with this statement too. Firstly I think a lot of consumers still beleive all the hype about the power of the PS3 being far superior to the 360. There may be some 'well read' consumers who actually do a little research before buying into products, but the vast majority don't. I actually beleive that the PS3 is more futureproof than the 360, but next gen just means next generation so Sony could have released a PS2 with an updated graphics chip and some more ram and it would still be next gen.
agreed.
the 'age old reliability argument' is far from over. Just because they give an extended warranty doesnt make the problem of 360's breaking go away. you will still get people being peed off with MS once they are on their third console, regardless if they had to pay for repair or not. This is something MS should have offered once they realised their was a problem, but as far as a lot of people are concerned it's too little too late.
I think BD is still a big selling feature. A lot of people will hesitate to buy a High-Def player when there is a format war on, but now that BD is pulling away from HD-DVD you will see more people start to think about commiting to buy a player and if they get one built into a games console then all the better. There are plenty of people on these forums and a lot of people I know who have bought a PS3 over a 360 because it has a BD player built in.
That definately would sway some to buy the 360 but I think you underestimate how many people dont even bother to look at the price of a 360 as they know what they want. They had a PS1 and a PS2 and now they want a PS3, but they just need to wait until it comes down to within their price range. Sony has massive brand loyalty, remember that they sold over 100 million of each of their previous generations of Playstation - even if 50% of them want to carry on along this route then Sony are laughing all the way to the bank.
I agree that it should be at the £300 price point already. Their is bound to be a price drop at some point before Xmas and then with a lot more decent games being out we will see how well it does - until then it's all speculation anyway!So even if the PS3 reaches the £300 point (which it already is/should be in dollar terms) I doubt it will help matters.
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Joebob said:
Sony are a victim of their own sucess with the PS2 but long term they could go the same way and sell 100 million in 7 years with the PS3, the big question is is how long can they hold out at the current price points?
The PS2 was the only major player in the market really for a long time, it had the exclusives which alone could sell it by the millions, where games like GTA, MGS, Pro Evo, Gran Turismo, Tony Hawks etc etc were only available on the PS2 for a fair period before cross platform. That luxury has been lost with all but a handful.
When the PS2 came out, DVDs were still expensive and players were not all that common and still fairly hefty £££. The PS2 became your DVD player + console as the jump from VHS to DVD was large. I know loads of uni mates who bought it for the DVD player alone (same can be said for the PS3 and BR but I would imagine the HDtv and PS3 set up would be a little less in reach £££). Heck in the same year it launched I got a cheap VHS player for £80
. Also everyone had a SD tv which could fully utilise the PS2 so it really was plug and play. Not everyone has an HD tv and although the PS3 doen't need one, BR is wasted without it.The PS3 has lost that luxury of being unique to a point like the PS2 was. I would happily have a PS3 BR player and set up but can't afford it nor have a pressing need. + My local DVD rental shop is a bit short on BR/HD to rent.
The PS2 has had a long time at the $130/£120 price point which has fulled sales dramatically. I would imagine and I can only guess when the slim line version launched as it was so cheap it tempted a lot of people to upgrade.
Sony definately have the future proof console but if combined BR and HD DVD players are released, which could be a posibility as the format war progresses, that would be interesting as it could, in theory, render the PS3 BR feature partially redundant.
I think MS got it right with the 360 at the time of launch leaving an HD DVD player out of the main machine and along with the core machine they read the potential market well. By the time HD/BR is the standard, say another 3-5 years to reach where we are now with DVDs, availability and price, the 360/PS3 will be out of date.
What would be really interesting is, if Sony do decide to get to that £299 inc a game price for X-Mas, I think the 360 would have to see a significant price drop in the UK to sell loads. As you have said PS3 brand loyalty may kick in with added affordability leaving the 360 on the shelves. Even at £200 the 360 may struggle against a £299 PS3 assuming it includes a game etc etc. £200 is close to the US price for a premium at the moment as far as I can tell from some sites and offers. So again rip of Britain strikes, but it is cheap enough to sell. They (360) arn't exactly flying off the shelves at their Dollar price in Aisa/US so if the PS3 price does drop some, that 360 price may need to hit £150 (premium pack) to compete.
A significant price drop in the 360 would again leaving further disparity between the 2 consoles.
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