Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Sep 2009
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- 30,294
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Returned goods not faulty charges in shops
- Thread starter v0n
- Start date
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Agree with that - if the store tells you it will work with XYZ and it doesn't this is a clear fitness for purpose issue under SOGA.
Agree with this also, as above.
The manual is read after the purchase takes place. It is not part of the pre-purchase research or advertising. It's also unlikely the manual says 'Supports I7 3820' either.
I don't think any of these actually applied in this case, though. He decided which board and CPU he'd use and then purchased them. I imagine he had already made the choice which board and CPU he would buy before he even chose his retailer.
Except no, it's not.
Legally the store has done nothing wrong. Computer components are an expert product remember, therefore when you are buying a collection of bits you really need to make sure you know what you are doing and this involves being familiar with what a BIOS is and the very real possibility that if you are buying a new-out CPU you might need a BIOS update before it'll work.
If this sort of stuff is something thats above you - which is fine - then numerous firms supply prebuilt computers or will assemble your machine for you.
Superb service. And very good tip for anyone with similar problem in the future.
The trouble was circumstances - a bit of a chicken and egg scenario - bios incompatibility, or even pinpointing motherboard being at fault couldn't be diagnosed "in house" by the buyer, because the board wouldn't post at the time.
Being fully aware of the bios incompatibility issues of this particular board and bios version of the board shipped to the buyer would be the only way to avoid this. Out of curiosity, are bios versions indicated anywhere on motherboard packaging by any chance?
Not that I am aware, only the revision of the motherboard.
Not quite the same situation, but I know that the earlier revision P965 DS3 boards (i think these were the models, may have been the P35) didn't support the higher (1333MHz) CPUs, only the rev 3 onwards did. This, however, is something that can be checked without even opening the product unlike a BIOS version
Not quite the same situation, but I know that the earlier revision P965 DS3 boards (i think these were the models, may have been the P35) didn't support the higher (1333MHz) CPUs, only the rev 3 onwards did. This, however, is something that can be checked without even opening the product unlike a BIOS version
Personally, that's one of the risks I accept I have to take when I elect to home build a computer. I am not a fully kitted out computer manufacturer and so if I encounter problems beyond my home building capabilities that is entirely my own lookout and my own personal risk to take. If I don't want to take on those risks myself, then I pay someone to build it for me.
From a service POV, for the sake of £25 it's probably better for them to just take it on the chin but given the small margins I expect people are operating to these days, they may well be in a situation where they can't afford to write off the £25 every time someone sends back something that isn't broken that takes the staff an hour to check and repackage etc.
edit - on the topic of the BIOS itself, the CPU compatibility is clearly listed as 'since BIOS F8' on the Gigabyte website and it shows the release date for that BIOS to be January 2012. Personally, that would set alarm bells ringing for me, as I wouldn't expect boards with the BIOS to already be in circulating stock, especially on such high end low volume kit. (and before anyone comments, yes I would really check this and did so for my last purchase)
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But I would expect you to check it, as I have in the past on every build Ive done, this isnt an isolated incident with that particular manufacturer, its happens all the time. Building your own computer means you have the inferred knowledge to do that, but also the ability to research compatibilty yourself - with the advent of the internet you really dont have an excuse.
As I said earlier the best you should expect is the lowest BIOS revision thats supported by your Mobos hardware revision - anything more up-to-date is a bonus. That information can be gleaned from the manus website...
EDIT: Im agreeing with you Kenai, I re-read it and it looks like Im arguing
ps3ud0
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[TW]Fox;21431897 said:
Well if something is printed in the manual that is supplied with the product that is simply not true, how is this the fault of the customer?
And i've bought motherboards that have come with a CPU support list, although it's normally a piece of inserted paper that comes dependant on board revision and BIOS. Surely this would be expected to be accurate?
I agree, I was just pointing out that if what i've said is true, there's certainly a case for complaint.
I don't expect a motherboard to come with the latest BIOS, but I do expect any information supplied with it to be accurate. I was simply pointing out that the guy in question should check this, as if it's been mis-advertised then he has a case.
It's just a pity he didn't send it direct to Gigabyte in the first place. I do think £25 for a BIOS flash is a bit cheeky mind, whilst the shop would be doing nothing wrong I would also suggest that in terms of reputation, it might be less damaging to give the customer the benefit of the doubt here.
Where does he say it is printed in the manual that it works with the new i7 without a BIOS update?
I would imagine this list didn't have the I7 3820 on it.
A manual is not 'advertising' and you dont see it until after purchase but anyway, who says it was even in the manual?
I dont understand why you have suddenly decided the manual says it works with the CPU has without a BIOS flash.
This is why you should shop with us.
We try our best to provide the best service we possibly can. Any reason why you never went with us in the first place?
Seems more issues and hassle than it is worth!
Does that extend to free BIOS upgrades when customers return equipment to you as faulty that isn't faulty?
Had a similar issue with the same retailer I suspect.
I had to return a PSU, as when it was outside the tower it worked fine. But on plugging in into the tower, sparks shot out everywhere. I returned it to them, got hit with the cost of returning in and a fee for it beign found to be non-fault.
Took a while to explain that the problem was with hooking it up to the tower, as the cabling inside the PSU was frayed and hitting the screw.
I never did get my money back, but have never got back to that retailer since and always tell people to avoid them based on that.
Always had a different experience with OCUK, I remember getting a call from 5UB telling me that something was out of stock. Felt quite strange
I had to return a PSU, as when it was outside the tower it worked fine. But on plugging in into the tower, sparks shot out everywhere. I returned it to them, got hit with the cost of returning in and a fee for it beign found to be non-fault.
Took a while to explain that the problem was with hooking it up to the tower, as the cabling inside the PSU was frayed and hitting the screw.
I never did get my money back, but have never got back to that retailer since and always tell people to avoid them based on that.
Always had a different experience with OCUK, I remember getting a call from 5UB telling me that something was out of stock. Felt quite strange
I think this raises a couple of points.
Firstly, if buying components to build your own PC, how can you possibly be sure this doesn't happen? Especially if the boards themselves externally have no BIOS revision markings?
Knowing what revision should work isn't helpful in that case.
Secondly, surely these days it should be possible to design a board that is in some way capable of having the BIOS updated without a CPU installed?
Firstly, if buying components to build your own PC, how can you possibly be sure this doesn't happen? Especially if the boards themselves externally have no BIOS revision markings?
Knowing what revision should work isn't helpful in that case.
Secondly, surely these days it should be possible to design a board that is in some way capable of having the BIOS updated without a CPU installed?
[TW]Fox;21432393 said:
I haven't said that at all. As I explained before, I am simply suggesting ways that the customer can complain about or avoid paying the restocking fee. Only the customer himself can decide if what i'm saying is right, by explaining what he was told at purchase (if at all) or what it says in the manual in the box.
The box will show the motherboard hardware revision; the manufacturer website will show that hardware revision and from that the earliest BIOS revision that it supported. Best youll glean without opening the box, but all possible before a purchase...
You are joking right? You are basically asking for an embedded processor to be installed just to cover this, its duly possible but not that sensible IMO...
Can we get this moved to Mobos/GH, just seems stupid to have it in GD as its really a specialist part rather than something a normal consumer would be expected to handle...
ps3ud0
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Does that extend to free BIOS upgrades when customers return equipment to you as faulty that isn't faulty?
Well we know Gigabyte offer the service, so yeah why not? We would have suggested that, if that was easier for the end user. We do what ever is usually easiest for ourselves and the customer.
Always had a different experience with OCUK, I remember getting a call from 5UB telling me that something was out of stock. Felt quite strange
Does feel weird saying over the phone. Hi there it is 5UB from OcUK, is that El_Commi?!
You might also want to suggest that he claims that the Chairman of the company personally telephoned before his purchase and gave personal assurances that it would work.
It'd be about as likely as your other suggestions. I don't want to sound like Dolph but this is some cracking strawmen you are building in this thread
Love a link if you have one, trying to work out how you would access the EEPROM - Im sure its probably far more simple than my knee-jerk reaction; just seems overkill when most of the time research would cover you...
ps3ud0
The ROG boards seem to do this... i've not owned one mind.
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?1142-How-to-use-ASUS-ROG-USB-BIOS-Flashback
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?1142-How-to-use-ASUS-ROG-USB-BIOS-Flashback