Road Cycling

Shadowness · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:01

Pulled the trigger on a power meter today. Garmin Vector 2S. Decided the dual sided version was overkill as all I'm after is a number for power. I'm sure the other data is fascinating, but not £400 worth!

Can anyone with Vectors please confirm whether you need to torque the pedals correctly?! I've read so many different versions, and loads of people saying you don't actually need to anymore on the second version.

Shame I'm travelling next week, will have to save my FTP test for after

Vonhelmet · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:04

Bear said:
I would be a cat d because I am a 94kg fat ****.

If you are fit then, to be <2.5w/kg either you are heavy or are weedy

I'm 70Kg and it's all thighs and torso.

Bear · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:10

Vonhelmet said:
I'm 70Kg and it's all thighs and torso.

In that case you are probably under estimating yourself. For your weight and to be <2.5w/kg your ftp would have to be around 170w. For a fit guy I find that hard to believe.

hornetstinger · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:11

I'm 12 stone, but 11 stone of that is my genitals.

Saytan · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:12

Shadowness said:
Can anyone with Vectors please confirm whether you need to torque the pedals correctly?! I've read so many different versions, and loads of people saying you don't actually need to anymore on the second version.

From what i've read they have to be torqued correctly to be accurate. How far they wander is another matter, but if they're not torqued correctly, the figures can only safely be compared to other figures generated by that setup.

grudas · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:18

Roady said:
Gurders: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182408821620

my shifter is fine

just took a bit of disassembly to remove the cable.

Roady · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:19

grudas said:
Mind you my old shimano 2300 did over 8k miles and no cable snaps.

Go back to 2300?

Lethal` said:
Looks like your camera is pointing up in the sky? I'd point it down a bit as contrast seems to get ruined quite a lot if there's too much sky.

It does a bit but footage is fine, will be rejigging my mount soon anyways (once I decide on how I'm mounting the ELEMNT). Quite fancy myself a K-Edge, just to see how good they really are! :cool:

Bear said:
Even unfit guys should be allowed to enjoy the ability to ride in a racing environment no? Thats the whole reason for the different category races, cat d are <2.5w/kg

Or perhaps they all went out too fast and blew themselves up and are struggling up the hills

Oh I totally agree, my point was more that even around 2w/kg I was distancing these guys who were in a ~2.5w/kg ride/race. I mean, especially on a climb I'd expect to be hitting the w/kg for the race and from what I'd heard of Zwift racing they push higher than that, then ease off on the flats to keep their average down. Bear in mind I caught and passed these guys (group of 8-10) so they were probably the remnants of a blown apart peloton, not the race leaders. Watch this space: Roady enters Zwift CAT D race and gets promoted to CAT A.

It also put the Zwift Categorisations into perspective for me, I ride with guys who race CAT3 & 4 and even burning myself on climbs I can't even remotely stay with them on the road.

Vonhelmet said:
By that metric I'd be cat d and I'd be a bit put out if that makes me unfit! I'm slow but definitely not unfit...

Yeah, I thought I'd be CAT D, but it sounds like I'll be best starting in C and not even bottom of the pile then... Determined to have a crack at racing when I'm back from my hols

Shadowness said:
Can anyone with Vectors please confirm whether you need to torque the pedals correctly?! I've read so many different versions, and loads of people saying you don't actually need to anymore on the second version.

Shame I'm travelling next week, will have to save my FTP test for after

I think (judging by discussions on here) as long as you've not got them stupidly under torqued they're ok.

Don't worry too much about an FTP test specifically because you now have a PWM, just ride with it and get used to your power readings with your current riding & feel. Enjoy them! An FTP test is only really useful when you're doing specific training or as a measurement you're looking to improve on and then retest in future.

xdcx · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:30

Shadowness said:
Pulled the trigger on a power meter today. Garmin Vector 2S. Decided the dual sided version was overkill as all I'm after is a number for power. I'm sure the other data is fascinating, but not £400 worth!

Can anyone with Vectors please confirm whether you need to torque the pedals correctly?! I've read so many different versions, and loads of people saying you don't actually need to anymore on the second version.

Shame I'm travelling next week, will have to save my FTP test for after

I have the Park Tools crowhead majiggy for torquing the Vector pedals.... Only to realise my big torque wrench is TOO big and my little torque wrench doesn't go up to the required values that Garmin give.... So I have done what I always done with the Vector 1's and I have done them by hand and then done them fairly tight with my pedal wrench.

It is less of a factor with the Vector 2's for sure, as the pod goes on afterwards so you are not tightening the spindle onto the pod body. If you have a torque wrench, get the crowhead adaptor to torque them, but if you are going to have to buy a torque wrench for them, I honestly wouldn't bother. I won't be.

Shadowness · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:41

I'm not going to buy a torque wrench for that, admittedly I could do with one, but I'll get the Lifeline Professional one, but that only goes up to 15NM. The only use I would have for more torque is the pedals and my SRAM crankset, which I think requires 45-54 or something.

I'll pop into my local bike shop and ask if someone could come out and quickly check it. I am a regular there so I'd like to think they'd help out!

I was sort of joking about the FTP test. To be honest, I think for the first few rides I wont even look at power, and then look at the numbers when I get back home, rather than chasing numbers on the ride.

hornetstinger · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:43

Shadowness said:
I'm not going to buy a torque wrench for that, admittedly I could do with one, but I'll get the Lifeline Professional one, but that only goes up to 15NM. The only use I would have for more torque is the pedals and my SRAM crankset, which I think requires 45-54 or something.

I'll pop into my local bike shop and ask if someone could come out and quickly check it. I am a regular there so I'd like to think they'd help out!

I was sort of joking about the FTP test. To be honest, I think for the first few rides I wont even look at power, and then look at the numbers when I get back home, rather than chasing numbers on the ride.

Wheels (15mm nut) cassettes, bottom brackets and crank arms need about 40nm.

booyaka · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:44

Shadowness said:
Pulled the trigger on a power meter today. Garmin Vector 2S. Decided the dual sided version was overkill as all I'm after is a number for power. I'm sure the other data is fascinating, but not £400 worth!

Can anyone with Vectors please confirm whether you need to torque the pedals correctly?! I've read so many different versions, and loads of people saying you don't actually need to anymore on the second version.

Shame I'm travelling next week, will have to save my FTP test for after

nice one - my understanding is they don't need to be torqued as per the 1st model.

Where did you get them from? I'm 99% certain I'll order

edit - 10,000th post so I'll celebrate buy purchasing!

Shadowness · 5 Jan 2017 at 14:53

hornetstinger said:
Wheels (15mm nut) cassettes, bottom brackets and crank arms need about 40nm.

Never had an issue with not using the exact torque on any of those (except for cranks I try to) but I see your point.

booyaka said:
nice one - my understanding is they don't need to be torqued as per the 1st model.

Where did you get them from? I'm 99% certain I'll order

edit - 10,000th post so I'll celebrate buy purchasing!

lol congrats!

Sigma Sport. One of the cheapest around and a reputable seller.

I believe I just had their last one though, as the confirmation email stated 1 was in stock.

booyaka · 5 Jan 2017 at 15:01

Shadowness said:
Never had an issue with not using the exact torque on any of those (except for cranks I try to) but I see your point.

lol congrats!

Sigma Sport. One of the cheapest around and a reputable seller.

I believe I just had their last one though, as the confirmation email stated 1 was in stock.

thanks - Think I'll order from Slane Cycles - £464.99 with 3.5% cashback

hornetstinger · 5 Jan 2017 at 15:04

Shadowness said:
Never had an issue with not using the exact torque on any of those (except for cranks I try to) but I see your point.

lol congrats!

Sigma Sport. One of the cheapest around and a reputable seller.

I believe I just had their last one though, as the confirmation email stated 1 was in stock.

The problem is you could be over torquing bolts. Which can lead to bolts snapping, or damaging the frame. For example if you over torque the seat post bolt on a carbon frame, you damage the frame.

I use a 1/4" and 1/8" torque wrench.

BennyC · 5 Jan 2017 at 16:13

Shadowness said:
To be honest, I think for the first few rides I wont even look at power, and then look at the numbers when I get back home, rather than chasing numbers on the ride.

I'd say look at it out of interest but don't focus or concern yourself with it largely to begin with.

Get an idea for what x-Watts (100,200,300,400 etc) feels like and then you can cry in the knowledge of how ridiculous pro's TT average power files are :eek:

Ultimately it all comes down to w/kg so holding x-Watts is all relative :cool:

Shadowness · 5 Jan 2017 at 16:16

It'll mainly be for pacing myself and gauging long rides. At the moment I base it on HR (and HR zones) but of course that's sometimes relative and not representative.

I ride to work too hard most days, as I really feel it on the weekend club rides a lot of the time (easy to get carried away in nice weather!), so riding to %FTP would be useful.

touch · 5 Jan 2017 at 16:17

I'd go for an FTP test straight away.
Your first one will be a disaster anyway - it takes 3-4 attempts to pace it right and get an accurate firgure. You'll need to be properly rested before each attempt so it can take a while to get your first accurate figure.

Shadowness · 5 Jan 2017 at 16:22

Just found out the Garmin 520 actually has an FTP test feature.

I'll probably just do a 20 min ride (after warm up etc) so then I'll have all the figures I need (or the one I guess!) for that 20 mins.

Berger · 5 Jan 2017 at 16:38

The Zwift grades are very tough and don't directly relate to a real road race, predominantly due to the drafting.

The correlation between height/power/draft isn't like real life so the smaller/lighter guys have an advantage they wouldn't have normally.

It turns almost into a TT style effort where you just need to keep maintaining 4w/kg (for A grade) or get dropped, there is no down time where you can freewheel in a bunch.

I manned up and had a ride outside in the afternoon, it was dry yesterday so didn't see any icey bits on the road.

Roady · 5 Jan 2017 at 16:52

Yeah but anything over 24nM is damn tight (max of most 'medium' torque wrenches), I wouldn't think you'd torque anything carbon that high?!

Personally I've never torqued cassettes or crank arms to their specified (high) torque settings, mostly because after some day to day grit & winter weather they'd almost be impossible to undo.

Crank arms are done 'man' tight, tight enough that my 10mm 'long' allen needs another 6inch handle fitting (with a grunt) to get it undone again.

Cassette lockrings I generally pull tight, then 3 of the extra 'bumps' you feel as they tighten. I've shredded the foil 'washer' thing before when trying to get them to 35 nM (think I still have some of the metal embedded in my thumb years later...). Think Campag cassettes have to be tighter? 50nM?

They're a harder alloy and were previously known for working loose? Never had any of my Shimano's loosen and I remove cassettes for cleaning probably 5+ times a year.

I've seen pedals recommended to 25-30nM? Have to admit I've never done mine that tight, probably not much over 12-18nM I've found tight enough. Never had one come loose and always struggled to undo them! :rolleyes: