Rooney has just been stretchered off. OH NOOO

Vandle said:
I think those 3 will be going regardless of Rooney.
Id take Ashton , far more effective than Crouch (who , incidently , wouldnt be anywhere near the team had he still been at Villa)
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I would take anybody apart from Crouch including taking another midfielder instead if i had to.

He is never going to set the world on fire, but by the same token he has never done badly in a shirt, so thats why i would also take Darius Vassell.

My strikers would be if everyone was fit:

Owen
Rooney
Vassell
Bent.

Simply because of the way MY team would play football.
 
Take Lennon and we'll all forget about Rooney. This kid would terrorise them like owen did in 98' World Cups can often be about having a player who is somewhat an unknown quantity, not quite established but who can tear teams apart.

I'd like to see us play this...With the wingers getting forward - Pace, technique and trickery on the flanks. Don't get me wrong Rooney is irreplaceable, but by using different players in a different system, we can be as much of a threat.

Robinson

Neville Carragher Terry Cole

Carrick

Lennon Lampard Cole

Gerrard

Crouch

To all the Crouch slayers out there, give the lad a chance, he could be a secret weapon, not many players will live with his height believe me, nuisance value and lay offs, if not for goals.
 
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Crouch is easily pushed off a ball, if he put on 2 stone of muscle then I'd consider him. At the minute he is severely underweight and a world class defence would have no trouble kicking him all over the place.
 
Tony Soprano said:
Crouch is easily pushed off a ball, if he put on 2 stone of muscle then I'd consider him. At the minute he is severely underweight and a world class defence would have no trouble kicking him all over the place.
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Don't get me wrong mate he needs to get some protein and in the gym, i watch him every week, i'm well aware of that.

However, as an outlet ball, or a threat in the air (he gives the likes of terry and rio problems in the air, two of best headers in country) he is a useful option. Ideally, i'd have him coming off the bench, ala argentina and uruguay when he's changed the game.
 
dobbsy said:
Don't get me wrong mate he needs to get some protein and in the gym, i watch him every week, i'm well aware of that.

However, as an outlet ball, or a threat in the air (he gives the likes of terry and rio problems in the air, two of best headers in country) he is a useful option. Ideally, i'd have him coming off the bench, ala argentina and uruguay when he's changed the game.
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I'm not saying he's a bad player because he isn't. He has his strengths but I fear that it's his weaknesses that will show up at the World Cup. Even putting on 2 stone of muscle would still leave him underweight for his height. I'm really surprised he hasn't put any weight on since joining Liverpool, I've seen people failing medicals for being really underweight or overweight. You'd expect the Liverpool medical and training staff to be saying to him that he should be putting on weight. Maybe they have and there is a reason he is that size? :)
 
If Rooney isn't fit, the 4 strikers pick themselves for me:

Owen
Defoe
D.Bent
Crouch

Note that me saying "pick themselves" doesn't mean that they are worldclass or anything like that, just that the alternatives aren't anything to write home about. Those 4 have all been in reasonable form over the past 2 seasons.

Defoe maybe less so but he has been in and out of the Spurs side which doesn't help, I think he has the capability to make things happen, even if he is inconsistent. By which I mean he is capable of magic, turning his marker, accelerating away and blasting one in the top corner, but equally, you wouldn't want to bet your house on him burying a chance that comes to him quickly inside the penalty box. Very hit and miss but maybe the sort of option which would be worth having on the bench for a gamble.
 
HangTime said:
If Rooney isn't fit, the 4 strikers pick themselves for me:

Owen
Defoe
D.Bent
Crouch

Note that me saying "pick themselves" doesn't mean that they are worldclass or anything like that, just that the alternatives aren't anything to write home about. Those 4 have all been in reasonable form over the past 2 seasons.

Defoe maybe less so but he has been in and out of the Spurs side which doesn't help, I think he has the capability to make things happen, even if he is inconsistent. By which I mean he is capable of magic, turning his marker, accelerating away and blasting one in the top corner, but equally, you wouldn't want to bet your house on him burying a chance that comes to him quickly inside the penalty box. Very hit and miss but maybe the sort of option which would be worth having on the bench for a gamble.
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what worries me there is the fact that owen, defoe and bent are all very similar - pacey strikers, could see us being a bit predictable..
 
Yeah, but what's the alternative? Vassell is just more of the same, Ashton is injured, Cole and Shearer are retired from internationals, Harewood lacks any kind of experience, Fowler isn't in shape yet.... the only possibilty would be maybe James Beattie but he always gets his goals in batches. Seems like he's fallen out of favour with Sven.

The way I see it, Owen has a little more to his game than just pace these days, his positioning inside the box is also very good which is why he scores quite a few (in spite of missing the occasional sitter) including a few headers for a fairly short chap. He reacts very well to rebounds and stuff like that, is quite predatory.

Bent is like Owen used to be, just reliant on speed and hanging on the shoulder of the last defender. He's there for backup not to start every game.

Defoe is more of a maverick in my eyes
 
When you actually try to predict a 22 squad with rooney included and the other not so fit players, we look pretty weak. We have even lost good utilty players like ledley king, I hate to say it but It wouldnt surprise me to see sven take Phil bleedin Neville.

With Rooney being unlikely that means he now has to take 5 strikers, especially with Owen a doubt to last. Then 3 keepers draw your 22 and see how stretched we could be.

Crouch is not an england international, good defensive teams like the italians and germans would show him up. Crouch is no better than Duncan ferguson, defend the 2nd ball and the game is up. It also promotes bypassing the midfield with a humped ball.

Argentina, italy, brazil, spain and france all play well or have won world cups recently without having to have a big donkey to hump it to, so why should we have to take one?

I really dont think we have a hope past the quaters without rooney. I think another worry is even if sven was told today rooney wont play for 3 months, he will stick take him in the squad. I also believe if he was to know tooday he was never going to make it, it would be hushed up. Sponsorship will lead us all to believe he will be playing in the finals at some point.

Just like ronaldo when nike put the pressure on, the same will be done to make sure rooney is there. That will mean 5 strikers and we go weak elsewhere.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Crouch is not an england international, good defensive teams like the italians and germans would show him up. Crouch is no better than Duncan ferguson, defend the 2nd ball and the game is up. It also promotes bypassing the midfield with a humped ball.
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You forgot to mention Argentina, they've arguably got the best defensive team in the World.... oh hang on didn't Crouch give Argentina plenty of problems when he came on. Just because Crouch is tall people who don't watch him think he's a donkey. When he first signed for Liverpool i had doubts over him but he's better than people give him credit for on the ball and holds it up very well, he's also the main reason why Gerrard has scored 21 goals this year.
 
BaZ87 said:
You forgot to mention Argentina, they've arguably got the best defensive team in the World.... oh hang on didn't Crouch give Argentina plenty of problems when he came on. Just because Crouch is tall people who don't watch him think he's a donkey. When he first signed for Liverpool i had doubts over him but he's better than people give him credit for on the ball and holds it up very well, he's also the main reason why Gerrard has scored 21 goals this year.
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That was a friendly not an full blown international. We only caused argentina problems when they stopped playing and messed around with the system. Argentina were just tinkering.

Yep used to hear the same defense from liverpool fans about heskey holding the ball and being international class. Heskey got what 6 goals this year. Both heskey and Crouch seem to have got in due to just playing for a big club.

I dont much like thew 'holding the ball up' comment that comes out either. For me its an excuse for strikers that can't get at teams. Who exactly would crouch be holding it up for anyway? Most likely when he plays they would pump the ball to him and the midfield would take an age to get to him anyway.

Sheringhams 40 and I'd still rather have him as a target man for owen than crouch. Crouch and heskey are the sort of caps that used to be given under graham taylor. Perhaps we should see what carlton palmers doing ;)
 
dannyjo22 said:
That was a friendly not an full blown international. We only caused argentina problems when they stopped playing and messed around with the system. Argentina were just tinkering.

Yep used to hear the same defense from liverpool fans about heskey holding the ball and being international class. Heskey got what 6 goals this year. Both heskey and Crouch seem to have got in due to just playing for a big club.

I dont much like thew 'holding the ball up' comment that comes out either. For me its an excuse for strikers that can't get at teams. Who exactly would crouch be holding it up for anyway? Most likely when he plays they would pump the ball to him and the midfield would take an age to get to him anyway.

Sheringhams 40 and I'd still rather have him as a target man for owen than crouch. Crouch and heskey are the sort of caps that used to be given under graham taylor. Perhaps we should see what carlton palmers doing ;)
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Good post and I agree 100%
 
dannyjo22 said:
That was a friendly not an full blown international. We only caused argentina problems when they stopped playing and messed around with the system. Argentina were just tinkering.

Yep used to hear the same defense from liverpool fans about heskey holding the ball and being international class. Heskey got what 6 goals this year. Both heskey and Crouch seem to have got in due to just playing for a big club.

I dont much like thew 'holding the ball up' comment that comes out either. For me its an excuse for strikers that can't get at teams. Who exactly would crouch be holding it up for anyway? Most likely when he plays they would pump the ball to him and the midfield would take an age to get to him anyway.

Sheringhams 40 and I'd still rather have him as a target man for owen than crouch. Crouch and heskey are the sort of caps that used to be given under graham taylor. Perhaps we should see what carlton palmers doing ;)
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Crouch came on after Argentina made most of there subs (the only sub made after Crouch came on was an attacking switch) and i don't remember Argentina tinkering or messing around any more than England were.
Many Liverpool fan's (which im not 1) were defending Heskey out of loyalty where as Crouch has deserved his praise. Its not a coincidence that Liverpool's form has been better when Crouch has played, you just have to compare this season to lasts.
As for who would he be holding the ball up for. England have 2 of the best attacking midfielders in the world, who specialise in breaking from deep and getting on to lay off's from strikers. As i said previously, Gerrard has scored 21 goals this year because of Crouch.
Now you commented on Heskey's scoring form as to why he is terrible this year and wanting Sheringham instead, well Sheringham has only scored 1 more goal than Heskey so it must be close between them.
Im not saying Crouch is a top class international, but the problem is that England only have 2, Owen and Rooney. Defoe and Bent are no better than Crouch, but the thing going for Crouch is he offers something different with Defoe and Bent being too similar to Owen.
 
BaZ87 said:
Crouch came on after Argentina made most of there subs (the only sub made after Crouch came on was an attacking switch) and i don't remember Argentina tinkering or messing around any more than England were.
Many Liverpool fan's (which im not 1) were defending Heskey out of loyalty where as Crouch has deserved his praise. Its not a coincidence that Liverpool's form has been better when Crouch has played, you just have to compare this season to lasts.
As for who would he be holding the ball up for. England have 2 of the best attacking midfielders in the world, who specialise in breaking from deep and getting on to lay off's from strikers. As i said previously, Gerrard has scored 21 goals this year because of Crouch.
Now you commented on Heskey's scoring form as to why he is terrible this year and wanting Sheringham instead, well Sheringham has only scored 1 more goal than Heskey so it must be close between them.
Im not saying Crouch is a top class international, but the problem is that England only have 2, Owen and Rooney. Defoe and Bent are no better than Crouch, but the thing going for Crouch is he offers something different with Defoe and Bent being too similar to Owen.
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As rafa said, 'you don't understand football if you understand what crouch brings to the team....' It is typical of your mindless glory boys who want to have ronaldinhos babies that produce this opinion
 
He has the stigma of being a previous Man Utd player though, some people can't get over that fact and see that he is a hard working player who can cover a variety of positions and do a good job. He's made a big difference to Everton this season.
 
Tony Soprano said:
He has the stigma of being a previous Man Utd player though, some people can't get over that fact and see that he is a hard working player who can cover a variety of positions and do a good job. He's made a big difference to Everton this season.
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Don't agree with that (the stigma part), he was a regular in the squad when he was at Man Utd (on the bench) but as soon as he moves to Everton (and plays) he gets dropped. Similar things have happened to Murphy, Barmby and Heskey (who were all in the starting line up for reasonably long spells), as soon as they left liverpool they were not picked for England again.
 
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