Roy Hodgeson

[Wiggis]

He Signed Joe Cole, he has my vote! Meireles is a good player as well.

Bearing in mind Liverpool have no money to spend I think his signings have been better than 99% of Benitez's even when there was money.
Take out Torres and Reina and possibly Johnson and Mascherano and name one top class player Benitez ever bought, and there were a lot of signings!

At the moment Liverpool do not have the quality of players as any of the teams that finished above us last year.
We have been going backwards for years, it is going to take time and money for Hodgson to make an impact.
We are still playing like Benitez is still in charge! Slow build up, play from the back crap!
If you look at any team Hodgson has managed they play much more attacking football, and eventually I expect Liverpool will start too as well.

I think he is a top quality manager and will prove it over the course of the season.

 

[BaZ87]

He didn't sign Cole and as for the rest of your post, I couldn't disagree any more.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Liverpool fans incapable of accepting they aren't a top team whinging that they aren't playing like a top team.

he's got new players, trying to fire up the youths and lazier players, finding guys like Babel just aren't worth the time. Liverpool HAD a good team, then for years it was weakend but they lived off two "stars" dragging the entire squad WAY up from the level they would normally play at, they had two years they ran off form, luck, a LOT of diving and cheating while ditching quality players.

Last season they lost the form, lost the confidence, lost more players and, they finished 7th (or was it 8th, I can't remember honestly) and that was with more in form and more confidence.

Can anyone explain why a less good team, with less confidence, and less form, should finish noticeably higher than last year? Benitez didn't do exceptionally badly with the team he had last year, however he did exceptionally badly to build the team he did.

Hodgeson has spent fairly little, brought in a couple highly regarded players, brought in a better left back. Pool fans seem to forget thinking Insua was a dreadful left back, because he scored a couple hilarious goals in ridiculous games.

Seriously the fundamental question is, why do Pool fans expect a new manager with new idea's who needs time to change the thinking of the players(which couldn't be more completely obviously wrong) would do better than Benitez with a worse team, with less form and less confidence?


If people really can't tell the difference between form and out of form, and can't believe it could make THAT big a difference, look at Lennon, or Bale, Lennon is a crap player, get a bit lucky for a few games, play the right teams, gain confidence you don't normally have and he's trying things he doesn't usually, he's scaring the bejesus out of defenders who normally would just knock him over but Lennon's form made THEM think he was a better player, so they stand off more, give more room, and that just allows a fast player more time to pick up speed and decide what to do. Lennon injured, no form, lost confidence, completely useless again.

Where would Spurs have finished last year without Bale hitting some form, where would they be this year, Europa cup, far lower down the league. Form matters, more than anything, Liverpool rode theirs as the team was dismantled around them, the 3-4 "stars" who are still there aren't in form and the team plays like it.

 

[Wiggis]

I agree, at the moment we are just not good enough and are a mid-table team at best.

BaZ87, How did he not sign Cole?

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

He Signed Joe Cole, he has my vote! Meireles is a good player as well.

Is he? From what I've seen of him on the right side of midfield so far he's been dreadful.

Bearing in mind Liverpool have no money to spend I think his signings have been better than 99% of Benitez's even when there was money.

So far he's signed a keeper from the Championship who was ridiculed by his own fans, Konchesky who is worse than the player he gave away on a free and Poulsen

Take out Torres and Reina and possibly Johnson and Mascherano and name one top class player Benitez ever bought, and there were a lot of signings!

Alonso for starters!

At the moment Liverpool do not have the quality of players as any of the teams that finished above us last year.

We also don't have the quality of player that most bottom half teams do, we have significantly better!

We have been going backwards for years, it is going to take time and money for Hodgson to make an impact.

We've been going backwards ever since we were taken over.

We are still playing like Benitez is still in charge! Slow build up, play from the back crap!

We're playing absolutely nothing like we were under Benitez.

If you look at any team Hodgson has managed they play much more attacking football, and eventually I expect Liverpool will start too as well.

1-0, 1-0, 1-0, 1-0, 1-0, 1-0...

I think he is a top quality manager and will prove it over the course of the season.

Based on what? A few trophies in Scandinavia and two finals with Inter and Fulham in 35+ years of management?

 

[syke]

Konchesky isn't bad at all, I don't see why you seem to think hes ****. Btw, the 'better for free' - are you on about Insua? Wasn't he nearly gone when he took over - so obviously that must have been the board, and hes gone to Galatasaray, who do have a bit of money - so it's probably done because it's half decent cash for him. Konchesky doesn't set the world alight, but hes still good.

You could at least give him more than 6 (4 of those top 4) games in the League before you lose all faith for him. I understand you're not winning 5-0 every game, but come on. Torres' form has carried on from the World Cup, who is your main scorer - it's not going to be easy!

And the buys he has done, fair enough not the Torres type signing, but getting Poulsen, Konchesky, Cole (if he had much say?), Jones and Meireles isn't that bad, that's three extra straight into the home grown quota, and a very good midfielder (who i'm surprised you managed to get) in Meireles. Jones is only the number two, so why is it such a big deal?

The results will start to come, now that the hard run in the league has gone with Utd, Arsenal etc. Although, you will be seeing a lot of 1-0 games this season!

 

[Tummy]

I'd disagree with this. He's a good manager for a club where there isn't much expected so little pressure. Some would suggest he did an excellent job at Fulham but his away record was awful.

At Blackburn he was poor and didn' seem to be able to cope with expectations, his signings made the team worse and the same seems to be true at Liverpool. It may be unrealistic now with the team they've got but I'm sure most Liverpool fans aren't happy with sending out a team to be happy with a draw against Birmingham.

He's managed at Inter Milan, so he's used to pressure jobs, he's also taken lots of jobs around Europe.

Or do they not count as they're not in the Premier League?

 

[BaZ87]

I agree, at the moment we are just not good enough and are a mid-table team at best.

BaZ87, How did he not sign Cole?

Well he wasn't the Liverpool manager when Cole was offered a contract by Liverpool.

We weren't a mid-table side last season despite being without our best player for the majority of the season yet we are now even though he's been fit for the majority of the season so far, and it's Benitez's fault

And agreeing with Drunkenmaster is a sure sign of being wrong. He regularly defends our great American owners.

 

[Alpherah]

Torres' form has carried on from the World Cup, who is your main scorer - it's not going to be easy!

Its not going to be easy when Roy is yelling at the players to get back into shape whenever we break with the ball. Never easy to score when its 2v6 all the time.

 

[jakeke]

It's not a case of him getting stick because we're suddenly not back to being the side that finished 2nd the other season. We've got a lot worse than last season and other than 45mins vs Arsenal, there has not been anything positive to show since he took over.

As I said in the other thread, the entire mentality that Hodgson has brought to the club has been shocking. I don't know if he's doing it to take the pressure off the players or himself but he's gone way over board with his dampening of expectations. Despite what's happened to our squad over the last 18months, we've still got a good enough side to be at least challenging a top 4 spot.

Despite what a couple of people may be saying, Liverpool fans as a whole won't be calling for his head anytime soon but that doesn't mean he's immune from criticism.

I don't think the team are playing that much worse than last year. I also think Hodgson's way of thinking does need a little time to come to fruition, but essentially he can make a team good if given some time. It's a little early for people to be saying 'he isn't good enough' I think, top of the Europa group and while the league form isn't great, there have been some very difficult games, compounded by him being a new manager dealing with some seriously out of form players (Torres being the most apparent). You mentioned the Arsenal game was probably the best, and Liverpool defended well in that game and looked a good unit, it has strangely gone backwards since then though.

I do think that Liverpool will win a game, Torres will start scoring and things will improve. You do raise a good point about some of the his comments to the media, his expectations don't exactly inspire confidence, but I imagine what he tells the papers is very different to what he's saying to the players in training, he's used to very determined and unified displays, anybody can see the players aren't giving him that. The last thing he needs is the newspapers over exaggerating a negative comment and bringing morale even further down.

Also, Zamora coped well in Fulham's system, he was constantly a threat, so I think Torres' lack of form is definitely accentuating the thoughts that the formation is wrong. If your single striker is playing poorly it deeply affects how potent you are. When Arshavin was up front for Arsenal last season it totally changed the complexion of the entire team.

 

[BaZ87]

I don't think the team are playing that much worse than last year. I also think Hodgson's way of thinking does need a little time to come to fruition, but essentially he can make a team good if given some time. It's a little early for people to be saying 'he isn't good enough' I think, top of the Europa group and while the league form isn't great, there have been some very difficult games, compounded by him being a new manager dealing with some seriously out of form players (Torres being the most apparent). You mentioned the Arsenal game was probably the best, and Liverpool defended well in that game and looked a good unit, it has strangely gone backwards since then though.

I do think that Liverpool will win a game, Torres will start scoring and things will improve. You do raise a good point about some of the his comments to the media, his expectations don't exactly inspire confidence, but I imagine what he tells the papers is very different to what he's saying to the players in training, he's used to very determined and unified displays, anybody can see the players aren't giving him that. The last thing he needs is the newspapers over exaggerating a negative comment and bringing morale even further down.

Also, Zamora coped well in Fulham's system, he was constantly a threat, so I think Torres' lack of form is definitely accentuating the thoughts that the formation is wrong. If your single striker is playing poorly it deeply affects how potent you are. When Arshavin was up front for Arsenal last season it totally changed the complexion of the entire team.

Firstly I'm not sure what games you've been watching if you think there's not much difference in our performances from last season compared to now. Yes, we had some very bad performances last season, especially away from home but nothing as consistently as poor as we've been this season. There quite literally has been little to no positives to take out of the season so far.

As for the 'he isn't good enough' point; I never thought he was good enough but I have and will support him but again, that doesn't make him immune from criticism.

And regarding Torres' form; it could be said that his poor start to the season may have a lot to do with how isolated he's been in most games this season. We sit far deeper than I can ever remember a Liverpool side playing, we don't press in attack or midfield and there's too often a huge chasm between Torres and the rest of the side. That can be forgiven away from home against top sides but it's happening when we're at home too.

My single criticism of Hodgson is the whole small club mentality he's brought; yes, we're not in the greatest shape but equally we've still got enough good players to at least be looking to challenge for a top 4 spot. After all, the squad he inherited had more representatives at the WC than any other squad in the league.

 

[Shamikebab]

; yes, we're not in the greatest shape but equally we've still got enough good players to at least be looking to challenge for a top 4 spot

Really? I think fighting for Europa League position is far more realistic expectation.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Really? I think fighting for Europa League position is far more realistic expectation.

Agree. City and Spurs are just too far ahead of us now and with players certain to leave in January, if new owners aren't found, we won't be challenging for the top four for a while. I'd even question our chances of a Europa League spot even if players didn't leave given how poor we're playing at the moment.

 

[BaZ87]

Really? I think fighting for Europa League position is far more realistic expectation.

Really. If Gerrard and Torres stay fairly injury free we're more than capable of going on a run that would put us in contention. Had Torres not had such a injury hit season last season then I'm sure we'd have finished in the top 4.

 

[Sone]

Really. If Gerrard and Torres stay fairly injury free we're more than capable of going on a run that would put us in contention. Had Torres not had such a injury hit season last season then I'm sure we'd have finished in the top 4.

Was that not Benitez's main failing though, having absolutely no cover for key positions.

For a few years Liverpool had the best first 11 in the league but nothing else in the squad.

 

[manic111]

He got left with an abysmal squad and little money. Aside from Poulsen, he has signed well. Cole on a free is excellent (whether or not it's his signing), Jovanovic on a free is decent business, bringing back Aurelio, if he ever gets fit, is intelligent, Meireles looks good (although I wish he would play him through the middle), and Konchesky is a solid left back. His only poor signing has been Poulsen and, in fairness, I'm not sure it's fair to judge any player a couple of months into their first season at a club. Anyone who was expecting him to go out and buy David Silva, Ever Banega, and Aguero, was frankly a bit deluded. Yes, the squad is terribly weak, but little of that is his fault. He's done well with the money he has.

It's taking a long time for players to adapt to what he is asking of them on the pitch, and this was always going to be the case and, with our key striker completely out of nick, winning games at this stage was always going to be tricky. In our PL games so far, Birmingham and Sunderland are always potential banana skins, and City, United, and Arsenal are always going to be tough. The only massive disappointment as been the West Brom result (and obviously Northampton). Yes, performances have been woeful, but if you take each result on merit as an individual result, few have been poor.

I'm not trying to defend him fully. Playing Meireles on the right, and playing Poulsen at all have been poor decisions as, in my opinion, was playing Jovanovic on the left, but give him a chance. Let the players learn what he's trying to d, and we'll see what happens. He's been criticised for not playing with wingers, but I'm not sure Arsenal play with true wingers, and his fairly successful Fulham team did not either.

If he isn't given a year at the very least it will be tragic, and people who were saying last year that Benitez needs to have a chance and more time after he had been there for five years are now jumping on Hodgson's back after three months. For a club whose fans pride themselves on having patience with the manager, it's embarrassing.

 

[BaZ87]

Was that not Benitez's main failing though, having absolutely no cover for key positions.

For a few years Liverpool had the best first 11 in the league but nothing else in the squad.

Partly but from half way through the season we finished 2nd, Benitez's main aim was to try and hold onto as much of the squad he had let alone add to it. It's the same for Hodgon now.

Until the club is sold we can't move forwards however we shouldn't be moving backwards as quickly as we have this season.

few have been poor.

 

[Burned_Alive]

6 games in, including Man Utd away, Man City away and Arsenal at home and the doom mongers are circling, at least give the guy until january!

 

[Jigga]

i dont think roy hodgeson is no where near as good as rafa. Poulson seem to pass the ball more backwards then forward. The left back is shocking jcole is too slow. I think meireles is going to be a very good player for liverpool. The best we will finish is 6th

 

[Tombstone]

Well if sky is to be believed today I see that jovanovic says he wants out already. I suspect he won't be the last, could see a few Liverpool players looking elsewhere in January.