Rule Britannia or not?

I understand that there will be a revised version of "Jerusalem" which will be sung and which will be dedicated to the "Windrush generation" - I can see that raising hackles in some quarters - e.g the Women's Institute blue rinse brigade ;)

 
Chi-chi Nwanoko runs the Chineke! Foundation, which aims to provide opportunities for black, Asian and ethnically diverse classical musicians in the UK and Europe.

She told the BBC: "We find it offensive.

"For any conscious black person who is aware of their history, the empire and colonialism, for example, they will struggle to enjoy the patriotic jingoism of these songs."
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Seems to be rather generalising there. I'm sure there are plenty of black people who enjoy it.
 
Lysander said:
Seems to be rather generalising there. I'm sure there are plenty of black people who enjoy it.
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Why would they enjoy it though? Anthems are all about symbolism, they aren't just cookie cutter pop songs written by professional writers.

I suppose if one doesn't care about all of that, it'd be understandable, not sure it makes a difference to the point of the verses though.
 
certain amount of sarcasm in the end of Jerusalem lyrics

I will not cease from mental fight,

Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand

Till we have built Jerusalem

In England's green and pleasant land.
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doesn't bear too much scrutiny ... Jerusalem is the role model for the UK
 
koolpc said:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...nnia-land-of-hope-and-glory-michael-fabricant

"THE BBC has been accused of being "hopelessly out of touch" following reports Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory could be dropped from the Last Night of the Proms."

Great Britain is going down the toilet fast! Its traditions with it.
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Define the traditions please.
Having never been part of 'great Britain' always part of the other bit you lot sometimes quoted, please go ahead and tell me of your traditions, and which have been lost, and how your GB is going down this toilet you speak of?

Is it the loss of family values?
Is it men bleatingly preaching on online forums, then getting caught out having affairs and breaking up family units?
Is this the loss of a tradition, or is this your culture?
 
Destination said:
Define the traditions please.
Having never been part of 'great Britain' always part of the other bit you lot sometimes quoted, please go ahead and tell me of your traditions, and which have been lost, and how your GB is going down this toilet you speak of?
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Quite.

Can the newest biggest fans of the Proms direct me to the OCUK Proms Fan thread? I must have missed that one.

It surely can't be the case that the demagogues have just undone the leashes and pointed the way, can it?

 
stockhausen said:
And . . .?
So what, what one earth has this got to do with Rule Britannia or the Last Night of the BBC Radio 3 Proms?
Even if true.
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Because this topic is likely to be more appealing to the older generations. But to the younger generations they see it as a negative, and is likely why someone said a comment with triggered this subject in the first place.

I'm just stating that the BBC need to stop pandering to people who are less likely to be paying a licence fee.

The connection is that the Last Night at the Proms is probably liked by the older people and disliked by younger people.

garnett said:
What relevance is that? You think that since then the plan has changed to only exclude the audience for the one song?

From your link...
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I pointed that quote out because in your link, from May, it was debating whether there would be an audience.

I don't care if there is an audience or not.

It is kinda funny though, watching people defend the BBC.
 
BowdonUK said:
Because this topic is likely to be more appealing to the older generations. But to the younger generations they see it as a negative, and is likely why someone said a comment with triggered this subject in the first place.

I'm just stating that the BBC need to stop pandering to people who are less likely to be paying a licence fee.

The connection is that the Last Night at the Proms is probably liked by the older people and disliked by younger people.



I pointed that quote out because in your link, from May, it was debating whether there would be an audience.

I don't care if there is an audience or not.

It is kinda funny though, watching people defend the BBC.
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I dont think people are so much defending the BBC although I dont see the problem with the BBC personaly, a bit right leaning for me but there you go. Its more that people are amazed at the uproar. I suppose we should be used to it by now buts its still funny never the less.
 
XeNoN89 said:
lammy's a ****. It's these idiots who want it banned starting the culture war
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Who are "these idiots" then? Because it looks like the origins of this story stem from a Brexiteer MP and some "sources" who apparently spoke to the rabid Express. The only idiots are the target audience.
 
BowdonUK said:
I pointed that quote out because in your link, from May, it was debating whether there would be an audience.

I don't care if there is an audience or not.

It is kinda funny though, watching people defend the BBC.
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What were you talking about then when you said:-
BowdonUK said:
It would be interesting to see if only Rule Britannia is being scaled back.
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Scaled back in what way?
 
chroniclard said:
Its just due to no audience and limited musicians.

Gammons have blown it up as usual.
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Yup.

If you have a severely limited number of musicians who can perform something that really requires a full orchestra you've got the choice of something that is likely to sound unimpressive, or try something else.
Given how much of the impressiveness of Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory as performed at the proms is the shear number of instruments and people involved I can quite see something with probably less than a third of the orchestra and no crowd singing will sound a little naff (no matter how good the musicians are, there are certain things that just don't sound "right" without enough people).

I'd imagine the BBC and the conductors etc have been talking about how to go ahead with LNOTP since March, especially as it's becoming more and more obvious that one of the big spreaders of Covid is an enclosed space, and that the louder people talk and sing the more likely they are to spread it, which will be a huge concern when doing something that requires a lot of people singing loudly, and a lot of people blowing hard into instruments.
i mean I'm sure if they really wanted they could have everyone wearing full masks, and put hepa filters on the oboes, trumpets and flutes, but I suspect it would affect the sound a little.
 
scaled back terminology is clear.

If anything the BBC started this with their woke caution, a soloist singer would be fine, and have nipped the issue in the bud.
twitter&whatever MP aren't the epicentre & Lammy a cheap date who will jump on a populist bandwagon.

It's not about the Proms, or, older generations, more about violation (by bbc) of a song which is known across most demographics, like, say you'll never walk alone, nimrod, national anthem, and, many other, cultural icons.
 
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