Soldato
So put me on your ignore list. See how simple was that.
Russian Grand Prix 2015, Sochi - Race 15/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
So put me on your ignore list. See how simple was that.
Permabanned
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9538348
Quote:
"When Lewis Hamilton announced in late September 2012 that he would be leaving McLaren for Mercedes, the F1 world was stunned.
Few had seen it coming. Even less believed it made sense. Two years on, with Hamilton crowned World Champion, the reaction and response to Lewis’ bombshell makes for very interesting reading…"
Quote:
"When Lewis Hamilton announced in late September 2012 that he would be leaving McLaren for Mercedes, the F1 world was stunned.
Few had seen it coming. Even less believed it made sense. Two years on, with Hamilton crowned World Champion, the reaction and response to Lewis’ bombshell makes for very interesting reading…"
Permabanned
Even more fun that he is about to win back to back titles and will most likely make it 3 in a row next year.
Soldato
I don't think it's most likely he'll win three in a row, there's a good possibility since Mercedes will probably still have the strongest car. But on the other hand the improvement Ferrari made over the last winter was nothing short of brilliant and I think Ferrari might have something to say about Hamilton winning three in a row - could perhaps see Vettel as 5 time WDC this time next year, who knows.
Permabanned
I am expecting Ferrari to fully catch by 2017, and then i expect 2017 to be one of the greatest season we have seen in the modern history of F1.
Soldato
...what?
Just....what?
Let me take you through that one again, slowly:
1) You say that they break the lap record at EVERY MotoGP race at EVERY track.
2) I give you examples to prove you wrong.
3) You then say that the same happens with Moto2 and Moto3.
4) I give you an example to prove you wrong about Moto2, in addition to having proved you wrong about MotoGP. I don't feel the need to go hunting for a Moto3 example at this stage as my point has been made.
5) You claim victory.
No bending, no twisting of words. Just what you said, and what I responded with. And you're still not admitting to being wrong.
Not sure if troll, or in genuine need of help. If it's the former - quit it. If the latter....well, it'd certainly explain why you know the number for the Samaritans off the top of your head. Perhaps you should actually call them!
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
I would say although a lot of people call it a mistake there are some fairly level views with people calling it a gamble but also mentioning that with 2014 coming Merc could have an advantage after the first year.
One thing I dislike is everyone fawning over Mclaren as a 'winning' team despite actually winning so very little in the previous 15 years. Much like the fawning this year about how if Mclaren say that engine is good it will be the best on the grid once it's 'unlocked' and being used at full power. The press is so painfully biased to the opinion that Mclaren and Ferrari are the biggest teams and leaving them is always a bad idea.
The absolutely best quote by a mile though is Alonso who pretty much says, hell yes leave Mclaren it's god awful working there.
Ron's quote is also pretty funny, offering him massively more money, being turned down..... apparently a joint decision.
One thing I dislike is everyone fawning over Mclaren as a 'winning' team despite actually winning so very little in the previous 15 years. Much like the fawning this year about how if Mclaren say that engine is good it will be the best on the grid once it's 'unlocked' and being used at full power. The press is so painfully biased to the opinion that Mclaren and Ferrari are the biggest teams and leaving them is always a bad idea.
The absolutely best quote by a mile though is Alonso who pretty much says, hell yes leave Mclaren it's god awful working there.
Ron's quote is also pretty funny, offering him massively more money, being turned down..... apparently a joint decision.
Facts? Where?
The content of the Team/FOM contracts is confidential. So you posted your interpretation of someone elses speculation of what those contracts may detail, and further speculation on what that may involve in terms of potential penalties related to terminating them.
I then responded with my interpretation of how those potential penalties may quite easily either be avoided or, at worst easily funded.
Neither of us are using any facts in this discussion. Its all conjecture at this point.
But what does stand up as a fact, is that no matter what any contracts say or what penalties there are in place, RBR will not be racing in F1 in 2016 and beyond if they don't have an engine supply. No amount of "they have a contract to 2020" bleating is going to get around that, unless your suggesting they go full on Flintstones mode?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
I think next year will be closer, RBR should have a better engine, Ferrari should close a bit further still. McHonda I don't expect to be top 5, I think they might get 5-10 fairly often on pace but lose a lot of those to failing cars.
2017 will honestly hit the reset button, it will reduce the chassis advantages of the best cars which gives the potential for other teams to nail it. It also gives the potential for RBR, Mercedes, Ferrari, Mclaren or anyone else to blow it. Just as multiple teams got 2014 completely wrong, plenty of teams could screw up 2017. We could have Merc make a killer concept and everyone else screw up, or Merc make a bad car and everyone else completely level.
Mclaren for me are the biggest question mark for 2017, Peter Aeroguy(not sure of his last name) is really only turning the Mclaren into the 2009-2014 Red bull. I think while Ferrari, Merc, RBR have known top aero guys, Mclaren have a guy who should be able to go to any team and turn their car into the Red Bull under current rules... can he build a top new car himself though, time will tell.
Renault... who the hell knows. Not sure they will definitely buy Lotus, not sure they wouldn't can the project end of next year if the team was a disaster.
Soldato
Spare a thought for poor old Fernando who left Ferrari just as they built a competitive car.
Permabanned
Alonso has my made to many mistakes when it comes to moving teams, he has seriously underachieved for his talent and the time he has spent in F1, he has failed himself in his decision making process.
Alonso has always failed to see what direction a team is going...
Soldato
To be fair to Alonso, while he would have been 2nd in the world championship if he stayed with Ferrari... he still would have only been second. He left because he thought, and rightly so, that he wouldn't have won a championship at Ferrari. Better to gamble with Honda (obviously turned out terrible... but still needed to gamble to have a chance).
I think that will still be true next year as well...
I think that will still be true next year as well...
People (inc the tv commentators) seem to miss that point.
Caporegime
Quite. Alonso cares nothing for doing okay in the Championship; he wants to win. After squandering his chance of a championship in 2007 and after languishing at a fading Renault in 2008 and 2009 he then failed to grasp his last good chance at a championship in 2010 before the years of Red Bull domination. After five years failing to win at Ferrari and with it clear that no existing engine could match the Mercedes under F1's engine change rules he needed to do something if he was ever to land another championship: McLaren and the possibility of a great engine from Honda was his only realistic shot at doing that. That it hasn't panned out doesn't make it a bad decision with the information available to him at the time.
Soldato
"These teams also received sign-on payments totalling $180m at the time of the bi-lateral agreements in 2012 and are “committed to participate in the F1 World Championship until 31 December 2020,” according to official documents"
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...red-bull-is-committed-to-f1-to-december-2020/
That's the second I've left the link. Unless you're calling JA a liar?
I think he'd rather be fighting for second than languishing next to last, getting embarrassed every race. Knowing Alonso, he's probably thinking that he's that so skilled, he could make the Ferrari a potential championship car.
In retrospect, the ideal thing would have been to stay at Ferrari another year (he's burnt those bridges, else he would have had a competitive car), and then see if McLaren could give him a fast car in 2016 where someone like Button has done all the scutwork on development.
I'm sure Alonso was sold a bill of goods by Ron, and was expecting to be fighting for podiums by the second half of the season, with an eye to a championship win next year. That's looking less and less likely as the car needs a lot more than a year's work to get it to the point of threatening regular wins
I note that Alonso lost his points at the last race after being demoted for continually cutting the track. That's a bit childish, after the team explicitly told him he was being warned by race control to stop doing it. I wonder how much longer Ron will want to pay the big bucks for Alonso to keep throwing his toys out of the pram.
How can a team with no engines compete in F1 until 2020? Please, explain that one to me.
RB have been offered engines, but have elected not to take them as not being good enough. If they want to be in F1 (and they have to be based on their contract with Bernie), it might be interesting to see how they could get out based on "not having an engine" when they've elected to not accept engines from Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes because RB wouldn't accept what they were offered.
Sure, they might not be competitive with last year's Ferrari/Mercedes/Renault engine, but I don't see where RB can bail out of F1 because they are not competitive until they sort out a better engine.
It's like if RB sacked their drivers and then said they wanted out of their contract because they had no drivers and therefore couldn't race. Are we seeing McLaren threatening to quit because they don't have a Mercedes engine and their current Honda engine won't be competitive for another year or two (or more)?
It's all posturing by RB, and at some point they will have to accept what they can get or leave the sport and pay the penalties. RB have burned so many bridges, they've painted themselves into a corner, and yet no one want to give them a leg up that helps them beat a factory team - why would they?
It was only a couple of years ago that RB were winning championships with some questionable tech, and the constant reply from Horner was "the rules are the same for everyone". Rules that RB helped develop, agree to, and signed up for.
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