Russian SU-24 - Shot Down by Turkey

elmuzzy66. said:
And the crazy thing is we want them to join the EU. Crazy.
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Nope never going to happen if they join the EU i leave for North America. There are already 44 million Muslims inside the EU, Rising to some 66 million in 2030. Turkey has 6 million people in Germany, And 77 million in Turkey alone. If i am correct on the age groups of under 30, They would be the biggest population wise in the EU. And another point is Turkey is not in Europe it is in Asia. A small stolen enclave does not make Turkey European. Turkey in the EU is probably the biggest worry i have about the EU.

I would say if it happens our leaders have secretly agreed to a policy of Islamization for Europe, Or a policy of trying to de-Islamize Turkey. Both are stupid and insane. We fought for hundreds of years to keep Turkey out of Europe for god sake it would be opening the gates of Vienna.
 
Rofflay said:
I would say if it happens our leaders have secretly agreed to a policy of Islamization for Europe, Or a policy of trying to de-Islamize Turkey. Both are stupid and insane. We fought for hundreds of years to keep Turkey out of Europe for god sake it would be opening the gates of Vienna.
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What utter Islamophobic nonsense!
 
DRZ said:
What utter Islamophobic nonsense!
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Good arguement brah.

Explain then why you would invite the rapers of the Balkans and Central Europe into the EU? How do you think Hungary would feel or Romania? Who by the way had to give up thier sons to be converted into the elite core of the Ottoman army.

The only rules on this collection every five years would be no only sons, And yea Christian converts (Jannisary) were the elite frontline troops of the Ottoman army. Not only that but they would use Christian women as breeding cows for thier Sultans. So derp derp do not try to make me out as a clueless Islamphobe. I know all about Turkey and thier shady history.
 
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It's pretty obvious that sections of the Turkish government are making deals with ISIS. I mean you only have to look at how Turkey is using the ISIS conflict as a means to attack the Kurds while putting up a front that they're against ISIS. Russia knowing this, just as the west do, decided to do the right thing and stop the trade links and so have revealed Turkey's true nature.

The idea that it's justifiable to destroy a jet of a nation that you're not at war with because it briefly flew over your border, despite knowing why those jets are nearby and apparently being allied with the reasons for them being there, is downright ridiculous and extremely dangerous. Turkey a nation who has flown military jets over Greek airspace illegally over 2000 times last year. They're a NATO member (laughable) and have many routes they could have taken to prevent this from happening in the future. They have a responsibility to their allies to take appropriate steps on the international stage. They have failed in this and have shown themselves to be volatile warmongers just like the subhuman rats they're making deals with.

Constantly the media make out Russia to be our enemies, the big bad bear that is Satan incarnate. However for the life of me since Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria I have found myself profoundly aghast at my own government and the actions of the west and instead actually agreeing with Putin over this whole mess. I'm not for once saying the guy is not corrupt and doesn't have his own machinations, but are you telling me the west don't?

You can guarantee that, just like how Turkey are using ISIS as a cover to bomb the Kurds, as soon as all the NATO allies are lined up and bombing Syria together, Assad will be targetted and Syria as a country (whatever is left) will never recover. Just as Libya is now in a three-way civil war and is completely destroyed despite promises of the west (Cameron apparently has no regrets about it), Syria as a nation will never recover.
 
Screeeech said:
You can't simply fly armed military aircraft into someone else's airspace, without any permission and expect everything to "just be ok" or brush it off with, "oh we weren't doing any harm"

If you fly armed military jets in places where they shouldn't be, for any length of time - expect consequences, Russia had been told not to do it, they ignore the warmings, and paid the price.
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Turkey do it to Greece all the time. Over a 1000 violations of airspace last year. So no of course it's an ott reaction they know Russia are targeting isis and other extremists.

Turkey aren't helping defeat Isis If anything they are helping.
 
drunkenmaster said:
With on going attacks local to the area and everyone on earth knowing and most supporting the action it's mostly absurd to believe that would be anything but an effectively allied plane running missions against Isis linked targets.

My question is, were Turkey worried about what that Russian plane might see in that specific area. Isis oil tankers going over the border, maybe a group of Isis fighters, or Turkish people dropping off supplies to be sent to Isis in exchange for oil or something along those lines. A panicked attempt to prevent evidence being gathered potentially?

Maybe Isis have threatened Turkey with attacks unless Turkey show they aren't working with Russia directly, who knows. It was simply utterly absurd to attack any plane for a 17 second incursion under the current circumstances in/around Syria.
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Welcome to be proved wrong but I'm fairly sure the rebels in that area are not ISIS. Despite what Moscow seems to say. The Americans haven't deliberately armed ISIS like they have these chaps.
 
Rofflay said:
Good arguement brah.

Explain then why you would invite the rapers of the Balkans and Central Europe into the EU? How do you think Hungary would feel or Romania? Who by the way had to give up thier sons to be converted into the elite core of the Ottoman army.

The only rules on this collection every five years would be no only sons, And yea Christian converts (Jannisary) were the elite frontline troops of the Ottoman army. Not only that but they would use Christian women as breeding cows for thier Sultans. So derp derp do not try to make me out as a clueless Islamphobe. I know all about Turkey and thier shady history.
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Which isn't any different to the atrocities committed during the Crusades or any other religion-based expansionism throughout history.

How do you feel about Roman Catholics? How does anyone feel about anyone ? If you go back in time you'll find conflict between just about everyone. We get along well just fine with Germany, so do the Polish and the French despite their pretty recent invasions and all the horrors that went with it.

You've picked Turkey because there are a lot of Muslims there for seemingly no other reason than their faith.
 
DRZ said:
Which isn't any different to the atrocities committed during the Crusades or any other religion-based expansionism throughout history.

How do you feel about Roman Catholics? How does anyone feel about anyone ? If you go back in time you'll find conflict between just about everyone. We get along well just fine with Germany, so do the Polish and the French despite their pretty recent invasions and all the horrors that went with it.

You've picked Turkey because there are a lot of Muslims there for seemingly no other reason than their faith.
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Completely different cultures with different values and beliefs. Of course we get on with Germany, we're both democratic largely Christian countries with similar cultures.
 
Washout said:
Welcome to be proved wrong but I'm fairly sure the rebels in that area are not ISIS. Despite what Moscow seems to say. The Americans haven't deliberately armed ISIS like they have these chaps.
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There's a group that's actually called "ISIS" and then other groups who all want an Islamic State (this includes Turkey). And so the aim and the (barbaric) methods are the same, they only differ in name.

All the division in names allows countries like the US and Turkey to supply the whole lot through whichever groups currently have the least bad reputation and can be spun as "moderate rebels". When there is too much stain on a particular group, a new one with a new name springs up, the weapons are given to them, and the process is repeated. Weapons-laundering, in other words.
 
Turkish newspaper editor in court for 'espionage' after revealing weapon convoy to Syrian militants

Published time: 26 Nov, 2015 14:18
Edited time: 26 Nov, 2015 15:36

A Turkish prosecutor asked a court to imprison the editor-in-chief of Cumhuriyet newspaper pending trial for espionage and treason. In May, the outlet published photos of weapons it said were then transferred to Syria by Turkey’s intelligence agency.

Besides the editor, Can Dündar, the prosecution said it is seeking the same pre-trial restrictions for Cumhuriyet’s representative in Ankara, Erdem Gül.

Dündar arrived at an Istanbul court on Thursday, saying that he and his colleague “came here to defend journalism.”

“We came here to defend the right of the public to obtain the news and their right to know if their government is feeding them lies. We came here to show and to prove that governments cannot engage in illegal activity and defend this,” Dündar was cited by Today’s Zaman.

The articles, published on Cumhuriyet's front page in May, claimed that Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization (MİT) is smuggling weapons in trucks into Syria and was caught doing so twice in 2014. The trucks were allegedly stopped and searched by police, with photos and videos of their contents obtained by Cumhuriyet.

According to the paper, the trucks were carrying six steel containers, with 1,000 artillery shells, 50,000 machine gun rounds, 30,000 heavy machine gun rounds and 1,000 mortar shells. The arms were reportedly delivered to extremist groups fighting against the Syrian government of President Bashar Assad, whom Ankara wants ousted from power.

The Turkish authorities denied the allegations, saying that the trucks were carrying aid to Syrian ethnic Turkmen tribespeople and labeled their interception an act of “treason” and “espionage.”

A 2014 report by Human Rights Watch warned that under Erdogan’s rule Turkey has seen the erosion of human rights via a crackdown on media freedom, dissent and a weakening of the rule of law.

Many journalists in the country are facing harsh prison terms for exposing corruption in the government and surveillance by the Turkish state.

Egdogan’s regime has also attempted to silence social media by blocking YouTube and Twitter on a number of occasions.

Prior to November’s general election, Turkish police stormed the offices of opposition media group Koza Ipek.

https://www.rt.com/news/323557-turkey-arrests-editor-cumhuriyet/
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Iraklis said:
ignore the trolls,

I really hope from the bottom of my heart and soul the Russkies teach a huge lesson to the Turks. Turkey is the regional de-stabilizer, especially now that the neo-ottoman Erdogan rules the country, almost Dictatorial.
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me too. Erdogan might want to have a geiger counter at hand in the near future.
 
Danny75 said:
There's a group that's actually called "ISIS" and then other groups who all want an Islamic State (this includes Turkey). And so the aim and the (barbaric) methods are the same, they only differ in name.

All the division in names allows countries like the US and Turkey to supply the whole lot through whichever groups currently have the least bad reputation and can be spun as "moderate rebels". When there is too much stain on a particular group, a new one with a new name springs up, the weapons are given to them, and the process is repeated. Weapons-laundering, in other words.
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The groups being targeted in this mountain region are the indigenous Syrian Turkmen, who have been actively fighting both the Syrian government and ISIS. They are part of the original FSA, while I'm sure they're not squeaky clean (who is at this point in the conflict?) they are far removed from ISIS style terror attacks and make no use of tactics such as suicide bombing, hence why they are considered moderate and have some US and considerable Turkish backing.

They are being targeted by the Russians purely to help Assad, not to fight terrorism.

There are plenty of groups within Syria that have legitimate reasons to want the government to be overthrown which have nothing to do with trying to establish an Islamic state, it's an incredibly complex map now with so many disparate groups and goals, so you really can't tar them all with the same brush.
 
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oulton said:
me too. Erdogan might want to have a geiger counter at hand in the near future.
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Self warming Turkish coffee.. I think taking out a leader of another nation would be classified as an act of war.

Russia will put sanctions up, ask the US to deal with it and give them a timescale. US will simply ask the same of Russia for Assad.

The problem is if there's any "war" in turkey that destabilises it, then IS will simply extend and attempt to capitalise on the situation by destabilising it further.

Russia isn't dumb enough to resign themselves to carpet bombing with daisy cutters for a shock and awe campaign (quote avatar!), they will simply starve Turkey economically.. resulting in less money going to the rebels.. that helps assad.

In the mean time.. US... is in a harder position..
 
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