Russian SU-24 - Shot Down by Turkey

Washout said:
tbf a mobile sam system surely has to be far more complicated than a shoulder mounted short range stinger any grunt can fire?
Click to expand...

it is - you have 3 vehicles , in a BUK-M2 system ; the launcher itself , command vehicle and the ammo carrier:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/9А39_TEL_interior.JPG

and

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...l_console_of_Buk-M2E_missile_system_TELAR.jpg

not the sort of system you can just hop into and use , even with the manual.
 
Cyanide said:
For a start Russia didn't directly shoot an airliner themselves.

And the guys in the rescue helicopter sent to recover the pilots who were shot at whilst parachuting down were hardly a threat to anyone.

I'm not defending anyone's actions as the whole thing is messed up but Russia aren't any worse than any of the other countries involved in this.
Click to expand...

Shooting the pilot was not on but then it's a rag tag militia group with little to no proper training or discipline. Putting myself in their shoes I'd be mad as hell at the Russians not only backing Assad but bombing them and not IS. That pilot and rescue attempt was their first real way of hitting back.
 
This war is a cluster f*ck but Russia has tried its luck for so long and got away with it. I get the impression they thought they could continue doing it.

Also, Russia done in Ukraine what Turkey is doing in Syria - Protecting and supplying arms to affiliated groups in neighbouring countries.. So they're both in the same boat.

My gripe is that you shouldn't be allowed to go within 1k of someone else's border with armed fighter Jets. It's not like they can just apply the handbrake if the a manoeuvre goes wrong, causing them to stray into someone else's air space.
 
Are we confusing setting up with using?

I think we are - again think 'squaddy proof' or is it really hard to hook a trailer up to a car/van? The fact it downed a civilian airliner lends more to the inexperience of the operators than anything. Think that Top Gear where Clarkson is using an Army surplus engineer mine clearer on its remote control to smash up a house...

SAM systems can pretty much be left to monitor their own air corridor and can fire on anything that enters it, or hold for an operator to tell it to launch etc - seriously seconds of user reaction time aren't a luxury anyone can afford when we're talking defending against fast air strikes.
 
Washout said:
Shooting the pilot was not on but then it's a rag tag militia group with little to no proper training or discipline. Putting myself in their shoes I'd be mad as hell at the Russians not only backing Assad but bombing them and not IS. That pilot and rescue attempt was their first real way of hitting back.
Click to expand...

But was that Russian jet on its way to bomb the same people that shot at the at the parachuting pilots?
 
b0otneck said:
But was that Russian jet on its way to bomb the same people that shot at the at the parachuting pilots?
Click to expand...

Yup Turkmen militia, who are trained officially in Iraq by Turkish special forces under Iraqi government approval, but not in Syria because Assad won't give permission.
 
Mynight said:
Argh right ok. I'll shut up now :D.
Click to expand...

RoboCod said:
But you're just an armchair general posting on a computer forum, what do you know? :p
Click to expand...

I served a good few years ago in the RAF regiment ; but even the likes of stinger isn't quite as easy as games make it out to be ; when we used stinger on exercise with the USAF you had to cool the IR seeker first before you could track to shoot (but it is a world better than blowpipe was)
 
Has the BUK system been as systematically updated as the Rapier? The latest incarnation I saw of the Rapier was a kick ass, and seemingly compact standalone system.
I saw the Royal Artillery using it, do the RAF and Army use the same rapier versions?
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
Has the BUK system been as systematically updated as the Rapier? The latest incarnation I saw of the Rapier was a kick ass, and seemingly compact standalone system.
I saw the Royal Artillery using it, do the RAF and Army use the same rapier versions?
Click to expand...

yes it has - the rapier now , is a lot more capable than even the kit I used - I was trained on Rapier FSB *R2D2* then Rapier 90 , but not the new stuff. Blindfire was good but had to be aimed at the target before you could go to automatic mode.

And no - the Regiment don`t use rapier anymore - they lost it to the cloudpunchers nearly 10 years ago :(. a sad day.

btw the most `fun` I had was in the tarcked version that was a real hoot to drive. boring fact number 1:

the army had to lease back the out of service tracked rapier, they had sold on , for GW1 for close air defence , as they had nothing!
 
Last edited:
Harlequin said:
I served a good few years ago in the RAF regiment ; but even the likes of stinger isn't quite as easy as games make it out to be ; when we used stinger on exercise with the USAF you had to cool the IR seeker first before you could track to shoot (but it is a world better than blowpipe was)
Click to expand...

That's why they have bottles of pressurised gas to chill things.. like the missile rails on planes have high pressure bottles to chill down the seekers during flight so they're ready to fire asap..
 
The russian sanctions will probably be enough to recoup the cost of the replacement (new) plane, the new pilots training and the perceived impact to offensive.

Turkey are customers of Russia.. so when you have a problematic customer, you let them know the issues recoup the costs and then continue once the noise has died down. I suspect that the chinese and the US will also be targeting the plan to build their reactor as their commercial companies would really like the contract....
 
Harlequin said:
it is - you have 3 vehicles , in a BUK-M2 system ; the launcher itself , command vehicle and the ammo carrier:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/9А39_TEL_interior.JPG

and

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...l_console_of_Buk-M2E_missile_system_TELAR.jpg

not the sort of system you can just hop into and use , even with the manual.
Click to expand...



so you're saying trained Russian air defence troops took the launcher into Ukraine, deliberately identified a civilian airliner, and shot it down in cold blooded murder then high tailed it back to Russia?

just why?



surely its more likely it was sent to the rebels to rudimentary training given to them and then they were left to their own devices and they shot down the wrong thing (as show by them initially tweeting they shot down a transport plane).


of course given Ukraine used the same system its perfectly possible that members of the prorussian rebels were trained former members of the ukrainian armed forces....
 
Last edited:
Tefal said:
so you're saying trained Russian air defence troops took the launcher into Ukraine, deliberately identified a civilian airliner, and shot it down in cold blooded murder then high tailed it back to Russia?

just why?



surely its more likely it was sent to the rebels to rudimentary training given to them and then they were left to their own devices and they shot down the wrong thing (as show by them initially tweeting they shot down a transport plane).


of course given Ukraine used the same system its perfectly possible that members of the prorussian rebels were trained former members of the ukrainian armed forces....
Click to expand...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...seems-to-have-been-accidentally-10472603.html

just as over 2000 have died after `volunteering` to fight.....

so yes it was a regular Russian unit which went to Ukraine and murdered MH17 , and they did it under orders from the kremlin. Quite likely it was a mistake , but like the USA , Russia have never , ever admitted to making them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom