Ryzen "2" ?

Doogles · 20 Dec 2017 at 01:55

beany_bot said:
The thing with Ryzen for me is that it's great and I really want to support AMD. But 50% of the time im playing FSX. And for that GHZ is king. So Im really struggling to pick AMD over Intel. I know I am a very niche consumer. but it makes a huge difference to FSX if you are at 5Ghz rather than 4Ghz.

No you're not niche, for many the increased clockspeed and slight IPC of Intel make them more viable, just look at how many buy coffee lake, for me if Ryzen can do 4.5ghz with 8c/16t then it'll be a decent enough if the pricing is right, I just wonder how long Intel will take with 8c/16t Icelake Z390 though, AMD need to get to the punch first.

subbytna · 20 Dec 2017 at 09:31

jigger said:
Interesting. I can see a few members getting fully hyped dumping those Coffee Lake chips. Oh wait it's not an Intel chip.

Are you gavinh87 in disguise

opethdisciple · 20 Dec 2017 at 10:27

Doogles said:
No you're not niche, for many the increased clockspeed and slight IPC of Intel make them more viable, just look at how many buy coffee lake, for me if Ryzen can do 4.5ghz with 8c/16t then it'll be a decent enough if the pricing is right, I just wonder how long Intel will take with 8c/16t Icelake Z390 though, AMD need to get to the punch first.

AMD already have mainstream 8/16 thread chips.

Steedie · 20 Dec 2017 at 11:24

Doogles said:
No you're not niche, for many the increased clockspeed and slight IPC of Intel make them more viable, just look at how many buy coffee lake, for me if Ryzen can do 4.5ghz with 8c/16t then it'll be a decent enough if the pricing is right, I just wonder how long Intel will take with 8c/16t Icelake Z390 though, AMD need to get to the punch first.

What about the 1700 and 1700X?

z10m · 20 Dec 2017 at 11:50

Steedie said:
What about the 1700 and 1700X?

Well they can’t do 4.5Ghz can they.?

Steedie · 20 Dec 2017 at 12:01

z10m said:
Well they can’t do 4.5Ghz can they.?

1700X probably could with a decent cooling setup

But I didn't realise you were referring to speed, just thought meant AMD didn't have a mainstream 8C/16T chip

z10m · 20 Dec 2017 at 12:07

Steedie said:
1700X probably could with a decent cooling setup

Yeah it probably will on LN2.

kitfit1 · 20 Dec 2017 at 12:35

z10m said:
Yeah it probably will on LN2.

No need to go with LN2 for 4.5Ghz. A single stage Phase will run a 1700 at that speed 24/7 if needed.

Doogles · 20 Dec 2017 at 12:42

opethdisciple said:
AMD already have mainstream 8/16 thread chips.

Not high enough clock speed, if a refresh gets it to 4.5Ghz then I'll probably buy it. I'd get the 8700k but with limited stock being available I like to buy my things at launch to get the most out of it, DDR4 pricing is also insane atm.

beany_bot · 20 Dec 2017 at 12:59

I agree, a 4.5Ghz (overclocked) Ryzen will see me switch. Definitely. Until then... well r7's 4.1Ghz is a far cry from Covfefes 5.0Ghz (typical overclocks). It's literally 20% "faster". (granted you probably have to delid to get it).

Hagar · 20 Dec 2017 at 13:15

beany_bot said:
It's literally 20% "faster".

No its not, IPC is not frequency. Its 'instructions per clock'. As frequency it is 20%, but in terms of work done its, between 5% and 10% at the extreme and in FPS it is small.

beany_bot · 20 Dec 2017 at 13:56

nkata said:
No its not, IPC is not frequency. Its 'instructions per clock'. As frequency it is 20%, but in terms of work done its, between 5% and 10% at the extreme and in FPS it is small.

Like I said... It's literally 20% faster. (frequency).

FPS it might be small in SOME games. But I assure you the difference in FPS in something like FSX between 4.1 and 5.0Ghz is VAST.

DragonQ · 20 Dec 2017 at 14:10

Yes, and you have to pay for that premium.

Drollic · 20 Dec 2017 at 14:10

I'd happily opt for next gen ryzen 8c16t if it could do 4.5 comfortably overclocked without needing a delid. Otherwise, I'd rather a 8700k at an easy 4.8. I still think it will be at least 2-3 years before 8c/16t is necessary for gaming simply as so many people will still have 4c/8t, 6c, and 6c12t cpus. A faster 6c/12t chip for gaming will be the best option for years to come unless you stream regularly as well. AMD need a chip that has 2c/4t more, that has clock speed ideally within 5-10% of Intel's once clocked and for less money than Intel's 6c/12t. Right now the defecit in clock speed is too great.

beany_bot · 20 Dec 2017 at 14:14

Drollic said:
I'd happily opt for next gen ryzen 8c16t if it could do 4.5 comfortably overclocked without needing a delid. Otherwise, I'd rather a 8700k at an easy 4.8.

Yup, at the risk of repeating myself. I am with you. Ryzen hitting 4.5Ghz and I'm picking AMD next year.

BongoHunter · 20 Dec 2017 at 14:56

TR 1900X with any half decent cooler would easily do 4ghz+ already

Drollic · 20 Dec 2017 at 15:53

BongoHunter said:
TR 1900X with any half decent cooler would easily do 4ghz+ already

4.0-4.2 isn't 4.5 and near on £400 isn't £300-350 either. They're about 10% off the mark for gaming at the moment and that's enough for a lot of people to go Intel. This isn't to say they're doing badly as sales seem positive, more to point out that if they can get the extra 10% on top of what they have now for the same cost, people in there droves would drop Intel for AMD and I include myself in that. Happy to drop a few % in performance for 2 extra cores and slightly less cost. Not however going to drop 10% or more in performance on a new system. RAM prices don't help AMD currently either. By 10%, I say that as realistically where you want them to be as opposed to where they actually are, which in some cases is over 15% behind gaming wise.

smilingcrow · 20 Dec 2017 at 23:42

4K8KW10 said:
It would be super great if Ryzen 2000 series improves the memory compatibility and we see a 4.3GHz Ryzen 7 2700 coupled with DDR4-4000.

Memory Speed Has a Large Impact on Ryzen Performance https://www.eteknix.com/memory-speed-large-impact-ryzen-performance/

Rossi~ said:
The returns diminish somewhat after 3200-3333 because that’s when the DF bottleneck has been overcome. From there on the returns are much lower.

Don't let the graphs fool you as if you look at the numbers you will see how small the gains are.
Marketing types or clueless people will try and fool you so look at the actual numbers.

i.e. a 3% gain moving from 2,133 to 3,466 is not a big deal for multi-threaded loads.
Note: There are so many dubious graphs which deliberately don’t start from zero because they know they will fool those unaware of basic marketing tricks.

humbug · 21 Dec 2017 at 01:31

smilingcrow said:
Don't let the graphs fool you as if you look at the numbers you will see how small the gains are.
Marketing types or clueless people will try and fool you so look at the actual numbers.

i.e. a 3% gain moving from 2,133 to 3,466 is not a big deal for multi-threaded loads.
Note: There are so many dubious graphs which deliberately don’t start from zero because they know they will fool those unaware of basic marketing tricks.

In those Graphs.

Cinebench Single threaded: +9%
Cinebench Multi threaded: +6%

Gaming: +17%

DarkHorizon472 · 21 Dec 2017 at 08:54

smilingcrow said:
Don't let the graphs fool you as if you look at the numbers you will see how small the gains are.
Marketing types or clueless people will try and fool you so look at the actual numbers.

i.e. a 3% gain moving from 2,133 to 3,466 is not a big deal for multi-threaded loads.
Note: There are so many dubious graphs which deliberately don’t start from zero because they know they will fool those unaware of basic marketing tricks.

There are plenty of tests showings significant gains with ryzen going from 2133 to 3200. It’s due to the way the CPU performance is directly linked to ram speed in Ryzen. Buying a better Gpu would likely produce bigger gains in many cases.