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Ryzen "2" ?

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by beany_bot, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. freebooter

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 13, 2003

    Posts: 1,323

    Location: location,location

    I have been looking into getting a ryzen system and this is one of the things that I am worried about. I was thinking of getting a low end cpu now and having the option of upgrading next year to a Ryzen plus as everyone keeps saying the AM4 chipset will be compatible with future chips. However, ryzen/am4 is the first generation of a new system and I would expect them to improve quite a bit and will this all be in the cpu or will it need a new motherboard? In particular the ram issues that ryzen has.

    Also will the mb manufacturers keep issuing new bioses for the old boards? There seems to be a lot of offers on current ryzen boards at the moment which suggests that they are clearing stock ready for launching new models.
     
  2. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 19,917

    Most probably not, given the fact it's mainly down to the IMC in the CPU and the DF. Which also backs up why people get different results on the same motherboards.
     
  3. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 28, 2007

    Posts: 12,544

    I think X400 will bring PCI-E 4, more SATA and maybe another 4xPCI-E lanes from the SOC.
     
  4. opethdisciple

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 18, 2010

    Posts: 19,899

    Location: London

    It will be a big disappointment tho if they haven't fixed fully compatibility with DDR4 ram modules when the new chips launch.

    AMD will be back big time if they sort out the small details such as easy plugnplay DOCP profiles.

    And all the little things the Intel platform does without you needing to spend any brain power to get working.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  5. Aretak

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 26, 2014

    Posts: 1,932

    That's unlikely to be the case. Better RAM compatibility will come down to the (hopefully) improved IMC on the new chips, rather than the boards. There's really nothing board-side you could change to improve it, beyond software updates (which the X370 boards will get to support the new lineup). And of course variations in component quality within each manufacturer's product stack, but that will be the same for X470. Current variations are also down to silicon lottery when it comes to the IMC. Some are just plain better than others.
     
  6. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 28, 2007

    Posts: 12,544

    DDR4 support is more down to the motherboard manufactures and micro code. How well you can overclock will be down to the, RAM, board and chip combination. Then IMC performance could make some difference.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  7. Aretak

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 26, 2014

    Posts: 1,932

    Even the cheapest B350 boards on the market are capable of 3200MHz+ speeds with current Ryzen chips. What board you own makes almost no difference. I can get 3466MHz running on the MSI X370 Pro Gaming that I have, and that's one of the cheapest X370 boards on the market. Getting higher speeds on the current CPUs is 99.9% down to owning a quality Samsung B-die kit (which I do), which is in turn down to the particular quirks of the current IMC liking those kits above all others. One would hope that the refreshed version will have better support for both other modules and higher speeds, and that most certainly will be, almost exclusively, down to the IMC, and not the motherboard. As it is right now.
     
  8. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 7,456

  9. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 19,917

    The returns diminish somewhat after 3200-3333 because that’s when the DF bottleneck has been overcome. From there on the returns are much lower.
     
  10. Mercutio

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 11, 2003

    Posts: 4,877

    Location: Sheffield, UK

    To be honest, while... AM4 is basically just the IO with everything else on the chip, I'd think it likely they'll have ironed out a few wrinkles in the traces/etc to help memory stability as that one quickly came out to be ryzens Achilles heel. While it's mostly down to the IMC, I'd think cleaner/better trace may well give the IMC easier/cleaner signals to work with...

    I'm almost certainly jumping on this as it lands but I'm waiting for new boards too.

    If you want to buy anything in advance, probably worth looking at DDR4 of chosen size now. Find some stupidly high speed C(L)16 or slightly lower speed C(L)14.
     
  11. Mercutio

    Mobster

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    Well... I agree but... still, they're "something".
     
  12. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 19,917

    Indeed, though don’t expect it to give similar differences with higher MEMCLK.
    What would make a nice difference is if they can improve the latency, though I’m sceptical because the reason is the design more than anything.

    Realistically so long as 3466MHz is easy to achieve, it’s CPU frequency we want along with an IPC increase.
     
  13. Beren

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 30, 2004

    Posts: 2,833

    Location: Auckland

    Could the mix of new chipset and ryzen + also decouple ram speed affecting IF speed. That would be a massive step forward.
     
  14. BongoHunter

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 14, 2014

    Posts: 1,786

    I know it's to soon, but I'm more excited to see the improvements carried over into Epyc and TR. Will be interesting to see if any new TRs come out with X399 compatibility - though I wouldn't expect to see a product for a good while
     
  15. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 7,456

    Maybe the B450 can support more M.2 slots. We need more M.2 slots on the cheaper models, too.
     
  16. Mercutio

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 11, 2003

    Posts: 4,877

    Location: Sheffield, UK

    It's not as tidy but... just get a PCIe card with more slots?
    Same affect in the end...

    Totally agree it'd be a nice step though :)
     
  17. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 19,917

    I'm not entirely sure they would bother given that it's a budget board. It would be realistic to assume that users wouldn't have multiple M.2 drives over standard SATA drives. It's likely to cost more to implement M.2 over standard SATA in manufacturing too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  18. beany_bot

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 19, 2015

    Posts: 4,217

    Location: Glasgow Area

    The thing with Ryzen for me is that it's great and I really want to support AMD. But 50% of the time im playing FSX. And for that GHZ is king. So Im really struggling to pick AMD over Intel. I know I am a very niche consumer. but it makes a huge difference to FSX if you are at 5Ghz rather than 4Ghz.
     
  19. BriT

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 27, 2005

    Posts: 4,189

    Location: Reading

    P3Dv4 is the way to go ;)
     
  20. Kali81

    Hitman

    Joined: Jun 30, 2004

    Posts: 505

    Location: London

    Lads, get your ticket and fly the real thing.

    Hoping for a decent ghz boost over first year zen. Good to see a bit of competition.