Ryzen "2" ?

[Zeed]

@humbug how many times did I posted tha I am actually crazy and on medication ???
Iw been building systems since 286sx times FOR MONEY and I see how quality of motherboards went down the hill in lst 8 years or so. You think How do I have direct contact with Asus and MSI nowadays ?? MSI called ME directly from Taiwan to send 3rd motherboard direct to HQ for R&D to see where is the design flaw.
Fantasrtic Customer support but had enough with motherboards from them. Sold 4th they send directly off production line still intact as I had Asrock running with no problems

 

[humbug]

The problem is the damage has been done - remember there is less of this noise about the Intel equivalents and people are just parrot repeating the findings of the video on more than one forum,without stepping back and looking at things in context. I can see by extension plenty of lurkers just getting an Intel system,if they can't afford or justify overpriced £150+ motherboards,and that is from my own experience quite a few people.

Yes i have seen this, it is quite deliberate shills like to perpetuate very old no longer relevant truths and it is a shame that this happens because no matter what AMD do and all of the good things they achieve all of it means nothing if the perception is poisonous, Intel know this, their shills know this and that's why you get these poisonous myths constantly regurgitated.

Its very much an organised campaign.

@humbug how many times did I posted tha I am actually crazy and on medication ???
Iw been building systems since 286sx times FOR MONEY and I see how quality of motherboards went down the hill in lst 8 years or so. You think How do I have direct contact with Asus and MSI nowadays ?? MSI called ME directly from Taiwan to send 3rd motherboard direct to HQ for R&D to see where is the design flaw.
Fantasrtic Customer support but had enough with motherboards from them. Sold 4th they send directly off production line still intact as I had Asrock running with no problems

Don't worry man i think you're pretty cool.

 

[Zeed]

The problem is the damage has been done - remember there is less of this noise about the Intel equivalents and people are just parrot repeating the findings of the video on more than one forum,without stepping back and looking at things in context. I can see by extension plenty of lurkers just getting an Intel system,if they can't afford or justify £150+ motherboards,and that is from my own experience of quite a few people especially gamers. Why bother with Ryzen 5 when you can spend £70 to £120 less on a motherboard for that Intel Core i5 CPU which gets you a nice 500GB SSD or a better graphics card?? Plus Intel is the "trusted" brand too,so this only increases distrust of AMD,especially after all the issues with the FX(it consumes too much power,meaning you need expensive motherboards,etc and Intel can be used in cheap motherboards fine),and this is just making Ryzen look like it has more issues,even if it is a motherboard OEM one.

I stil Build systems on cheaper motherboards just dont Overclock them. If someone wants overclocked system I'm just going Invest in better board mate

@humbug Worry not I like chatts here with You and most You got valid points and opinions so do I. Always happy to Agree to Disagree. As above cheaper boards got their own place on market,. Its about the so called Mid Range... They became junk. Instead of improving boards they just started adding crap like rgb stickers BT wifi modules to them. Leaving CRUCIAL stuff same as on low end. And then smalling GAMING or OVERCLOCKING on box +50 quid price tag.

And peiople that dont know much get cheated by them :/ thinking they actually got BETTER product paying 50% more... Ye better at glowing in the case if they got windowed one and thats about it :S

 

[humbug]

I stil Build systems on cheaper motherboards just dont Overclock them. If someone wants overclocked system I'm just going Invest in better board mate

@humbug Worry not I like chatts here with You and most You got valid points and opinions so do I. Always happy to Agree to Disagree. As above cheaper boards got their own place on market,. Its about the so called Mid Range... They became junk. Instead of improving boards they just started adding crap like rgb stickers BT wifi modules to them. Leaving CRUCIAL stuff same as on low end. And then smalling GAMING or OVERCLOCKING on box +50 quid price tag.

And peiople that dont know much get cheated by them :/ thinking they actually got BETTER product paying 50% more... Ye better at glowing in the case if they got windowed one and thats about it :S

Yeah i know what you are saying and maybe this is why Buildzoid is so scathing of mid range boards but really i don't think they are a problem, certainly nothing like what Buildzoid makes out they are.

Another worry that i have is they are fine as they are and if vendors start feeling the pressure to beef them up the cost of them will go up in line with beefier X470 boards or higher priced Z370 boards, at which point there is no midrange and no one wants that.

They are £100, that's a nice price and there is nothing wrong with them.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The problem is £150 isn't a "cheap" board,so ultimately it still comes down to the fact even OcUK don't agree as their own systems with mild overclocks have £80 to £100 motherboards and the reason why AM4 has "underbuilt" VRMs compared to AM3+ is since the FX CPUs drank power,and Ryzen does not. Its why the Intel boards also were the same.

I too agree that all the RGB stuff has raised prices, but again at the same time I think it does not make sense to spend £150 to £200 on a normal ATX board just to run a £140 to £160 CPU even with a mild overclock.

The issue is again how many on forums are getting so worried if someone runs MCE on their £100 Intel board and a Core i5 or Core i7 of some sort(which is an auto-overclock) and raises TDP and power consumption. Its like with the FX systems which simply consumed far more power - the FX8300 series overclocked needed far better motherboards than those running FX6300 series CPUs,and I have seen systems with the latter CPUs in sub £90 boards last years. Its the same with Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 - just because a board can't overclock a Ryzen 7 2700X well,does not mean it isn't fine with a Ryzen 5.

This is the issue with websites/YT channels making blanket statements without context - even the motherboard humbug was considered "crap" in that review,but he admitted it was probably fine for Ryzen 5.

It gets even worse if you consider something like an £80 Ryzen 3 2200G and perhaps overclock it a bit - are people going to buy a £150 to £200 board just to overclock that?? Seems utterly pointless.

Its why I said Ryzen needing £150+ motherboards to overclock starts destroying its value.

If that is the case,Ryzen overclocking might as well be considered a non-feature as it is not adding much in performance but adding a lot in motherboard and cooling price!

Might as well disable overclocking on the B350/B450 TBH and have it like the Intel B360.

 

[Zeed]

The problem is £150 isn't a "cheap" board,so ultimately it still comes down to the fact even OcUK don't agree as their own systems with mild overclocks have £100 motherboards. The issue is again how many on forums are getting so worried if someone runs MCE on their £100 Intel board and a Core i5 or Core i7 of some sort(which is an auto-overclock) and raises TDP and power consumption. Its like with the FX systems which simply consumed far more power - the FX8300 series overclocked needed far better motherboards than those running FX6300 series CPUs,and I have seen systems with the latter CPUs in sub £90 boards last years. Its the same with Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 - just because a board can't overclock a Ryzen 7 2700X well,does not mean it isn't fine with a Ryzen 5.

This is the issue with websites/YT channels making blanket statements without context - even the motherboard humbug was considered "crap" in that review,but he admitted it was probably fine for Ryzen 5.

It gets even worse if you consider something like an £80 Ryzen 3 2200G - are people going to buy a £150 to £200 board just to overclock that?? Seems utterly pointless.

Yup if one buys top range chip 8700k 2700x id expect them to run 200+ board with it.
If one runs i5 or Ryzen 5 they can run lower tuier boards problem free.

Like I posted above my house mate went with top tier cpu 4770k and lower end board and it packed up in 2 weeks with no overclocking at all 90% sure it was just flawed board for starters. But we sent it back and he forked out cash for Gaming 7 that he uses to this day.
And that PC was packed and curiered from Nottingham to Poland 2 years ago still no problem and plays woW on it and runs overclocked on gaming 7 also forgot to add

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yup if one buys top range chip 8700k 2700x id expect them to run 200+ board with it.
If one runs i5 or Ryzen 5 they can run lower tuier boards problem free.

Like I posted above my house mate went with top tier cpu 4770k and lower end board and it packed up in 2 weeks with no overclocking at all 90% sure it was just flawed board for starters. But we sent it back and he forked out cash for Gaming 7 that he uses to this day.
And that PC was packed and curiered from Nottingham to Poland 2 years ago still no problem and plays woW on it

See that makes more sense - £300 Ryzen 7 2700X with a £150 to £200 and above motherboards sure,but I get the impression from what is being said on forums about B450/X470 boards its extending even down the CPU range(or people are thinking it is) with lower end SKUs under £200,and this is what I have issue with!

For example done quite a few Ryzen 5 builds(so have mates),all with £110 max motherboards. The oldest was done within two months of the Ryzen launch and even during the hot weather is fine.

 

[humbug]

See that makes more sense - £300 Ryzen 7 2700X with a £150 to £200 motherboards sure,but I get the impression from what is being said on forums about B450/X470 boards its extending even down the CPU range(or people are thinking it is) with lower end SKUs under £200,and this is what I have issue with!

Right, Buildzoid almost labeled this board as dangerous, just because it only has 4 high side Fets, in other words its a true 4 Phase, like midrange Motherboard have been for a decade and midrange CPU's are now more efficient than they have ever been, well.... without getting into trouble for being a fanboy i'll leave it at that.

Look i think the truth is for overclocking a 2700X its probably not quite good enough but a 2600?

He didn't like any of these B450 boards, he hated them all and that's not good when someone is looking for a £100 board to pair with their 2600 sees that, it perpetuates as CAT already explained that only £200 boards are good enough and clearly that is not true.

There is no balance is his reviews.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Right, Buildzoid almost labeled this board as dangerous, just because it only has 4 high side Fets, in other words its a true 4 Phase, like midrange Motherboard have been for a decade and midrange CPU's are now more efficient than they have ever been, well.... without getting into trouble for being a fanboy i'll leave it at that.

Look i think the truth is for overclocking a 2700X its probably not quite good enough but a 2600?

He didn't like any of these B450 boards, he hated them all and that's not good when someone is looking for a £100 board to pair with their 2600 sees that, it perpetuates as CAT already explained that only £200 boards are good enough and clearly that is not true.

There is no balance is his reviews.

The problem is even on Reddit when people are trying to point out anything he goes on there and tries to shut them down,so the damage is done methinks as you can see what is happening on this very forum too.

Looking at comments people seem to be more worried now and think you need more expensive boards for Ryzen. Since there is less scrutiny on the Intel side,I suspect many lurkers will be more likely to use a cheap Intel board with their Core i5 or Core i7 without a second thought.

 

[humbug]

The problem is even on Reddit when people are trying to point out anything he goes on there and tries to shut them down,so the damage is done methinks as you can see what is happening on this very forum too.

Looking at comments people seem to be more worried now and think you need more expensive boards for Ryzen. Since there is less scrutiny on the Intel side,I suspect many lurkers will be more likely to use a cheap Intel board with their Core i5 or Core i7 without a second thought.

Is that his own Reddit channel?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Is that his own Reddit channel?

I just checked some Reddit conversations about the B450 boards and lots of people read Reddit. TBH,even all of this is putting me off the B450 TBH and Ryzen 2,and just recommending Intel for budget stuff since I know zero people out there who would buy a £150 CPU with a £150 motherboard. Its bad enough trying to find RAM companies who stick to their own specs so you don't have some dual ranked Hynix crap,then have to trawl through and trying to decipher what is accurate and what is hyperbole on sub £150 AMD boards,is not worth it.

I wish AMD did some sort of official ranking systems,so we definitely knew what boards worked best with what.

 

[humbug]

I just checked some Reddit conversations about the B450 boards and lots of people read Reddit. TBH,even all of this is putting me off the B450 TBH and Ryzen 2,and just recommending Intel for budget stuff since I know zero people out there who would buy a £150 CPU with a £150 motherboard. Its bad enough trying to find RAM companies who stick to their own specs so you don't have some dual ranked Hynix crap,then have to trawl through and trying to decipher what is accurate and what is hyperbole on sub £150 AMD boards,is not worth it.

I wish AMD did some sort of official ranking systems,so we definitely knew what boards worked best with what.

Its a fake complication, in the same way that you would never pair an 8700K with a £60 board you wouldn't do the same with a 2700X on a £60 board.

Common-sense principles apply, that's it. People hyperboleing none existent complications just need to be challenged with conmen sense counter arguments.

Nothing has changed just because Suddenly AMD are competitive again.

 

[humbug]

Its a fake complication, in the same way that you would never pair an 8700K with a £60 board you wouldn't do the same with a 2700X on a £60 board.

Common-sense principles apply, that's it. People hyperboleing none existent complications just need to be challenged with conmen sense counter arguments.

Nothing has changed just because Suddenly AMD are competitive again.

Look i'll show you how easy this is, you already know it yourself... here goes.

X370/X470: Ryzen 3, 5 and 7
B350/B450: Ryzen 3 and 5
A320/B320: Ryzen 3

Its no more complex than that.

 

[Zeed]

Problem is people think they need 800w PSU to run 1 gpu setup.

My setup maxes out at 470w from wall on max load max oc LOL

 

[Martini1991]

As an anecdote.

I don't rate my Asus X370 Prime Pro for overclocking at all.
The voltage stability is the worst I've ever witnessed in my experience. It can quite pretty much vary with .1v swings up and down which is ridiculous.

Changing LLC doesn't really help at all.

Whereas back when I had a Crosshair on AM3 my Phenom II's were always solid.

 

[ED209]

My system is quite simple.

Got the following

Gigabyte AB350M gaming 3
Team group 3000mhz ram
AMD 2200g with stock cooler
250gn Samsung 850 Evo
Cosair builder series cx 450w psu
Windows 10 pro 64 bit

And the thing runs like a dream. No issues what so ever (except minecraft) ram running with xmp on and at 3000mhz so I nice cheap entry level pc for gaming. Built in gpu is quite good as well

 

[Zeed]

As an anecdote.

I don't rate my Asus X370 Prime Pro for overclocking at all.
The voltage stability is the worst I've ever witnessed in my experience. It can quite pretty much vary with .1v swings up and down which is ridiculous.

Changing LLC doesn't really help at all.

Whereas back when I had a Crosshair on AM3 my Phenom II's were always solid.

That's Midrange board for You :/

 

[Martini1991]

That's Midrange board for You :/

Well that's the thing, I remember seeing chatter about the VRM's.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Look i'll show you how easy this is, you already know it yourself... here goes.

X370/X470: Ryzen 3, 5 and 7
B350/B450: Ryzen 3 and 5
A320/B320: Ryzen 3

Its no more complex than that.

Nah,you need a £150 motherboard to run a £150 Ryzen CPU apparently. Just like enthusiasts on forums who think anything under a 500W PSU is incapable of running anything other than a GTX960/GTX1050TI or something like that.

Funny how the Intel motherboards don't seem to get as much attention. I would love to see the reaction if every single B360 motherboard and every sub £150 Z370 motherboard was considered junk and would explode.

Yet,funny enough all these B350 boards I have known people use,seemed to work perfectly fine with a Ryzen 5. The ones on the internet tech forums and YT must have a voodoo curse on them,yet in the realworld they seem fine,as Caseking UK(OcUK),Lenovo,HP,etc sell loads of PCs running Ryzen 5 CPUs with 4+2 phase VRMs with three year warranties,etc.

They must either want to go bankrupt very quickly or get special blessings to work properly!!

 

[chroniclard]

As an anecdote.

I don't rate my Asus X370 Prime Pro for overclocking at all.
The voltage stability is the worst I've ever witnessed in my experience. It can quite pretty much vary with .1v swings up and down which is ridiculous.

Changing LLC doesn't really help at all.

Whereas back when I had a Crosshair on AM3 my Phenom II's were always solid.

I wasn't that keen on my X370 Prime "Pro", seemingly simple bios settings just not there so I had to use a custom bios to unlock them, I stuck it in my daughters build and got a Crosshair VI. Her PC runs great mind, 1600X+ noctua cooler at stock speeds and 3200 team dark pro ram with docp settings right off the bat.

Motherboard names are a bit misleading, ULTRA PRIME MEGA GAMING 7 RGB PRO EDITION, it can be a minefield unless you do plenty of research. That can mean waiting a while for reviews and peer advice before buying though.