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Ryzen "2" ?

Doobedoo said:
Agreed 7nm Zen is the next gen imo but the 12nm ones will be better by some margin at least. but the point being that Intel have had a long time to squeeze that amount of performance from coffee lake, that is why 8% single and 1.2% multi seems quite small, common perception would probably be a bit more perhaps.
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Have to remember that % is at the same clocks and i'd presume most 8700k's can do nearly around 1GHZ better than that which gives them a further gain.
Once AMD can get ryzen to closer to those clocks then really i suspect a lot more to change to ryzen.
 
triss said:
Have to remember that % is at the same clocks and i'd presume most 8700k's can do nearly around 1GHZ better than that which gives them a further gain.
Once AMD can get ryzen to closer to those clocks then really i suspect a lot more to change to ryzen.
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Again this is for a 1st generation product with refinements and a better process designed for higher clocks this difference will be minimal. We all know coffee lake performs better than Ryzen, that has never been in question.
 
gavinh87 said:
Tbh even at 1080p minimum on some games is enough to make our 1070 the limiting factor. I'd lean towards your opinion if we both had ti's!
What I have shown in another thread is that the 1600 can and is limiting a gtx 1080 at 1080p. Thus my comments about the fear I have for the lifespan of 1st gen ryzen.
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Haven't we seen in the past with the 2500k and the equivalent Amd cpu, that at the time the 2500k was easily ahead, yet as time went by the Amd closed that gap. can't remember the exact cpu but I think Adored highlighted it in one of his videos. Sore subject I know ;).

I'd say as things go forward Ryzen will possibly fare better because as you say games of old are single thread biased where as games of the future will possibly be less so. People look at benchmarks for current performance at what ever resolution they are using now primarily I would have thought.
 
gavinh87 said:
Tbh even at 1080p minimum on some games is enough to make our 1070 the limiting factor. I'd lean towards your opinion if we both had ti's!
What I have shown in another thread is that the 1600 can and is limiting a gtx 1080 at 1080p. Thus my comments about the fear I have for the lifespan of 1st gen ryzen.
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Frankly I think 1080p's had its day come another GPU generation or two.
Vega 64's/1080Ti to me are capable of 4K gaming comfortably (Albeit with some settings lowered).

I run a Vega 64 and a 1700 at 3.8GHZ at 2560x1080 144HZ. I'd probably get better overall gaming performance from a higher clocked 8700K, but Ryzen isn't the same compromise that prior AMD chips were. I have no problem taking my Ryzen build with me going into the future (Although I'll change the CPU as much as I can)
 
Doobedoo said:
Haven't we seen in the past with the 2500k and the equivalent that at the time the 2500k was easily ahead, yet as time went by the Amd closed that gap. can't remember the exact cpu but I think Adored highlighted it in one of his videos sore subject I know ;).

I'd say as things go forward Ryzen will possibly fare better because as you say games of old are single thread biased where as games of the future will possibly be less so. People look at benchmarks for current performance at what ever resolution they are using now primarily I would have thought.
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Frankly AMD only closed the gap to the 2500K with Ryzen, newer games aside that is. Piledriver came out in 2012 and never got replaced till 2017.
 
Doobedoo said:
Again this is for a 1st generation product with refinements and a better process designed for higher clocks this difference will be minimal. We all know coffee lake performs better than Ryzen, that has never been in question.
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I don't understand this emphasis on "1st generation product". If Intel released a completely new line up and called their new product "1st generation" but it smashed AMD's 4th variation of Ryzen I wouldn't suddenly start slamming Ryzen because it's a 4th generation product getting bested by a 1st generation product.
 
Doobedoo said:
Again this is for a 1st generation product with refinements and a better process designed for higher clocks this difference will be minimal. We all know coffee lake performs better than Ryzen, that has never been in question.
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That is very topical. Gaming at low resolutions with a very highend Nvidia card and the driver hamstrung to 4~ threads? maybe. Other situations and Coffelake can get left in the dust.
 
Martini1991 said:
I don't understand this emphasis on "1st generation product". If Intel released a completely new line up and called their new product "1st generation" but it smashed AMD's 4th variation of Ryzen I wouldn't suddenly start slamming Ryzen because it's a 4th generation product getting bested by a 1st generation product.
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One has more to come one has been refined almost to the max. One has over 4 generations on the same node and has been refined to run higher and higher clocks with minor architectural improvements, the other one is on it's first attempt and got to within 8% single and 1.2% multi on a process designed for low power and will only get better and will be also switching to a process designed for higher clock speeds.
 
Doobedoo said:
One has more to come one has been refined almost to the max. One has over 4 generations on the same node and has been refined to run higher and higher clocks with minor architectural improvements, the other one is on it's first attempt and got to within 8% single and 1.2% multi on a process designed for low power and will only get better and will be also switching to a process designed for higher clock speeds.
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Intel regressed their clock speeds, it wasn't till Kabylake that they were back to where they were with Sandy Bridge, so I can't agree with them being refined to run higher and higher clocks.
It's also not 1.2% multi as a blanket statement either at the same clocks, given that a 4 threaded app would be multithreaded yet would be that 8% deficit rather than the negligible 1.2%

Again, if Intel released a brand new product that was dubbed as a 1st generation product and it bested Ryzens 4th generation, I wouldn't give a flying monkeys. The emphasis on the generation stuff just seems to be playing on something that isn't required. Ryzen is good. It speaks for itself, it doesn't need odd stipulations.

As long as AMD follow up with a higher clocking Ryzen, they're absolutely laughing. If I can get an AMD Ryzen 2 with higher IPC and 10% higher clocking at 8C/16T then it'd be a monster.
 
Doobedoo said:
One has more to come one has been refined almost to the max. One has over 4 generations on the same node and has been refined to run higher and higher clocks with minor architectural improvements, the other one is on it's first attempt and got to within 8% single and 1.2% multi on a process designed for low power and will only get better and will be also switching to a process designed for higher clock speeds.
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One is also a lot better priced and on a much better platform. It's also a hell of a lot more secure.
 
Yeah sorry that post didn't make a lot of sense. Ok let's look at 14nm. They have had Skylake > Kabylake > Coffeelake that's three generations on the same 14nm process node, that's excluding all the work that went before that. Now Amd have come along with a brand new architecture using 14nm and have got quite close at least as Cinebench goes. With 12nm or 14nm+ they will again get closer. That's a massive upturn.

Now I agree it's not Intel's fault Amd have taken this long to get to where they are now but had they had even longer to squeeze performance out of Ryzen we might be seeing different results. Not that it matters of course.

Intel puts 8th generation on the box for a reason mind you.
 
Doobedoo said:
Yeah sorry that post didn't make a lot of sense. Ok let's look at 14nm. They have had Skylake > Kabylake > Coffeelake that's three generations on the same 14nm process node that's excluding all the work that went before that. Now Amd have come along with a brand new architecture using 14nm and have got quite close at least as Cinebench goes. With 12nm or 14nm+ they will again get closer. That's a massive upturn.

Now I agree it's not Intel's fault Amd have taken this long to get to where they are now but had they had even longer to squeeze performance out of Ryzen we might be seeing different results. Not that it matters of course.

Intel puts 8th generation on the box for a reason mind you.
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Ryzen was 5 years in the making.
Ryzen is very good, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand the train of thought. It doesn't need people saying "If only" etc.
My 1700 runs 3.8GHZ. But there's scenarios where my 1700 bests an 8700K (Although they're few and far between) however at the time of launch, there were scenarios where my 1700 would wipe the floor with a 7700K.
 
Martini1991 said:
Ryzen was 5 years in the making.
Ryzen is very good, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand the train of thought. It doesn't need people saying "If only" etc.
My 1700 runs 3.8GHZ. But there's scenarios where my 1700 bests an 8700K (Although they're few and far between) however at the time of launch, there were scenarios where my 1700 would wipe the floor with a 7700K.
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Context is the only reason it's not about falsely building up Ryzen. Ryzen is 5 years in the making and coffeelake much more.
 
jigger said:
8MP is 4K.... Go away and play a game Gavin.
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My bad, was reading on my phone. Who even speaks about monitor resolutions in MP?
Even so, show me a 4k benchmark where coffeelake gets left in the dust.

You are full of these stupid claims with nothing, ever, not a single time have you backed them up with any tangible proof.
 
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