Ryzen "2" ?

[SiDeards73]

You've made me wonder if the 8700K might actually be the fastest single-thread processor we'll see for the next few years... even soldering the spreader probably won't let them handle 8 Coffee cores on any normal sort of cooling...

Pretty sure its going to be more cores and less Ghz going forward from Intel in the i7 area... will be interesting to see how they bring the battle to AMD, knowing they will have to regress clockspeed, add more cores, keep it tamed etc, ontop of that AMD will be on their 3rd revision of Ryzen when Intel come to play... will definitely be interesting.

 

[Scougar]

Just to be clear, pinnacle ridge (2xxx series) is not actually Ryzen 2 right? This is just a process improvement, Ryzen 2 comes later? If so... can we rename the thread to be more accurate?

 

[humbug]

Yes process improvement and minor tweak. ^^^^

The 8700K doesn't require much more than a 7700k tbh.
But it certainly wont be tamed by an air cooler!

It depends on what you define as "not much more" 30 watts more on total system power is significant, that's a 90 Watt 7740K vs 120 Watts for the 8700K, the 8 core 7800X is 63 watts more, that's 90 vs 153 Watts, 120 watts is pretty high power consumption, 150 watts is as high as Bulldozer, maybe even higher.

 

[4K8KW10]

Typical Toms Hardware, everything about this seems right, the 7900X topping the board, yeah... apart from one thing, the 7700K, it look like they took that from a previous benchmark that they pushed to the top of the charts surrounded by Intel advert banners and forgot they did that, only this is a Skylake-X review so the 7900X had to be faster and yet the 4.6Ghz 7820X is near at the bottom with the 4Ghz 1600X. is that the true performance of Skylake-X, how is the stock 7700K so much faster?

These processors with integrated graphics have a kind of secret juice that puts them so comfortably ahead. I have always been wondering why i7-7700K and i7-8700K are so much faster in games. It isn't the clockspeed alone.

 

[humbug]

These processors with integrated graphics have a kind of secret juice that puts them so comfortably ahead. I have always been wondering why i7-7700K and i7-8700K are so much faster in games. It isn't the clockspeed alone.

lol

 

[Gdourado]

Will 2600 or 2700 run memory at more than 3200?
For ryzen, the go to ram was the 3200 Cl14 b-die memory.
For zen+ will it be worth it to spend a bit more on 3600 CL15 b-die?

Cheers

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

BTW,even if the Ryzen 7 2700X consumes more power than a Ryzen 7 1800X,its running at a much higher clockspeed,and is probably less than an overclocked Ryzen 7 1800X. The fact it can run on an A320 motherbiard alone,hints power consumption cannot be that bad!

 

[humbug]

Will 2600 or 2700 run memory at more than 3200?
For ryzen, the go to ram was the 3200 Cl14 b-die memory.
For zen+ will it be worth it to spend a bit more on 3600 CL15 b-die?

Cheers

No one knows but the word is Ryzen 2### will run upto 4000Mhz memory.

The thing is tho will running above 3200Mhz actually make any difference to performance, if not there's no point

 

[humbug]

BTW,even if the Ryzen 7 2700X consumes more power than a Ryzen 7 1800X,its running at a much higher clockspeed,and is probably less than an overclocked Ryzen 7 1800X. The fact it can run on an A320 motherbiard alone,hints power consumption cannot be that bad!

+1, Power consumption with Ryzen 2### is the last thing anyone should worry about, even overclocked the 1800X uses a lot less than an overclocked 8700K, Ryzen has a lot of room to spare.

 

[4K8KW10]

No one knows but the word is Ryzen 2### will run upto 4000Mhz memory.

The thing is tho will running above 3200Mhz actually make any difference to performance, if not there's no point

We know that Ryzen needs higher frequency modules in order to internally tick-tick faster.
It doesn't make sense that these higher frequencies wouldn't translate into higher performance. The question is how much - will it unleash some truely hidden performance, or we will see the effect of the diminishing returns.

 

[DragonQ]

Pretty sure its going to be more cores and less Ghz going forward from Intel in the i7 area... will be interesting to see how they bring the battle to AMD, knowing they will have to regress clockspeed, add more cores, keep it tamed etc, ontop of that AMD will be on their 3rd revision of Ryzen when Intel come to play... will definitely be interesting.

If that is indeed the case, I imagine prices of i7-6700K/7700K rigs (especially the motherboards) will remain high for a long time, since there'll be a market of people who want to play "retro" games that heavily depend on single core performance. Unless of course Zen 2 does actually reach 5 GHz.

Just to be clear, pinnacle ridge (2xxx series) is not actually Ryzen 2 right? This is just a process improvement, Ryzen 2 comes later? If so... can we rename the thread to be more accurate?

I dunno, the naming scheme is so confusing that it doesn't matter what you refer to it as, it'll always be unclear. Technically this is Ryzen 2 since it's the second generation of Ryzen CPUs, based on the Zen architecture on a 12 nm process. There are also Ryzen 2 APUs, which are the second generation of AM4 APUs but the first generation of Zen-based APUs, and they're on a 14 nm process. Also, AMD's internal slides still refer to Ryzen 3 as being based on the "Zen 2" architecture.

*head explodes*

I prefer just using the codenames to avoid confusion, i.e. Summit Ridge, Raven Ridge, Pinnacle Ridge, etc. Shame the codenames from here on in are crap, with Ryzen 3 being Matisse.

 

[humbug]

We know that Ryzen needs higher frequency modules in order to internally tick-tick faster.
It doesn't make sense that these higher frequencies wouldn't translate into higher performance. The question is how much - will it unleash some truely hidden performance, or we will see the effect of the diminishing returns.

Yeah maybe

On a side note, i think AMD will drop a 2800X as soon as Intel drop their 8 core Coffee. its their ace up the sleeve.

 

[BongoHunter]

We know that Ryzen needs higher frequency modules in order to internally tick-tick faster.
It doesn't make sense that these higher frequencies wouldn't translate into higher performance. The question is how much - will it unleash some truely hidden performance, or we will see the effect of the diminishing returns.

We already see diminishing returns on Ryzen 1 as the speed goes up though I think? Factor in the higher cost of faster modules and I'm sure there will be a sweet spot just like within Ryzen 1. Number of modules also impacts highest max mem speeds at least on TR.

I think single vs dual rank also has an impact

 

[Mercutio]

Just to be clear, pinnacle ridge (2xxx series) is not actually Ryzen 2 right? This is just a process improvement, Ryzen 2 comes later? If so... can we rename the thread to be more accurate?

Ryzen is Zen.. Ryzen 2 is Zen+..? Was always my take on it. Zen 2 will be called something else.
In the same vein as 4770 and 4790 are both Haswell.

Yeah maybe

On a side note, i think AMD will drop a 2800X as soon as Intel drop their 8 core Coffee. its their ace up the sleeve.

I have.... next to no doubt. To a point I'm even considering a 2600x and wait for the 2800x to drop.

 

[FiremanSam]

Just to be clear, pinnacle ridge (2xxx series) is not actually Ryzen 2 right? This is just a process improvement, Ryzen 2 comes later? If so... can we rename the thread to be more accurate?

I dunno, the naming scheme is so confusing that it doesn't matter what you refer to it as, it'll always be unclear. Technically this is Ryzen 2 since it's the second generation of Ryzen CPUs, based on the Zen architecture on a 12 nm process. There are also Ryzen 2 APUs, which are the second generation of AM4 APUs but the first generation of Zen-based APUs, and they're on a 14 nm process. Also, AMD's internal slides still refer to Ryzen 3 as being based on the "Zen 2" architecture.

*head explodes*

I prefer just using the codenames to avoid confusion, i.e. Summit Ridge, Raven Ridge, Pinnacle Ridge, etc. Shame the codenames from here on in are crap, with Ryzen 3 being Matisse.

It is Ryzen 2 but only Zen+, as DragonQ said Ryzen 3 will be on the Zen 2 platform.

 

[Scougar]

Thanks for the clarity gentlemen

 

[Scougar]

We already see diminishing returns on Ryzen 1 as the speed goes up though I think? Factor in the higher cost of faster modules and I'm sure there will be a sweet spot just like within Ryzen 1. Number of modules also impacts highest max mem speeds at least on TR.

I think single vs dual rank also has an impact

There are circumstance where dual rank is actually faster, even though the recommendation is single. Was interesting reading back when the analysis was done (I can't remember the website).

 

[BongoHunter]

There are circumstance where dual rank is actually faster, even though the recommendation is single. Was interesting reading back when the analysis was done (I can't remember the website).

I think there's some coverage of this for Epyc on servethehome.com but my search skills are failing me

 

[chrcoluk]

Eh, meanwhile the Intel folks retreat to the last 5% of high ground they have left and scream about how it's the only thing that matters?

Ryzen is... within spitting distance of an IPC fight with the right memory. Single core clocks are basically all Intel has left to fight on.
There WILL be IPC improvements, there WILL be clock speed improvements from moving to a far better LP.

Hype train to a point, yup, but... eh, even setting sights really low, it's gotta do well.

I look at it as performance per core rather than simple IPC.

Userbench shows intel still has a circa 30% advantage which is definitely relevant, that swayed me to my 8600k over a ryzen.

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-8600K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X/3941vs3920

For most people an extra 30% raw performance means much more than 6 logical threads.

For ryzen to get comparable, they need to regain at least 20% performance per core in my opinion. That could be achieved by raising clocks 800mhz or so.

 

[BongoHunter]

Yeah maybe

On a side note, i think AMD will drop a 2800X as soon as Intel drop their 8 core Coffee. its their ace up the sleeve.

TBH I think the TR 1900x is going to be cheaper than 8 core CFL no matter what happens now, as it's already the same price as the 8700k, in fact by the time CFL 8 core lands its probably going to make a 1920X mighty tempting as we should see more TR price drops as we enter Q3 and get TR+