Ryzen 2600 vs i5 8400, intresting reults

[gavinh87]

No you don't and no there aren't. my board is a £75 board.

Get your fingers out of your ears. Go take a look at other forums and you will see that the 2600 needs better than a b350.
We get that you are impressed that it can beat a 8400 in a few games but lets not pretend its a white wash nor that average joe is going to be overclocking it to 4.2ghz with DDR4-3400 memory with tightened sub timings.


A couple of things Steve said that are worth noting

That said it’s well worth nothing that it took an aggressive all core overclock, ultra expensive memory that was custom tuned and an upgraded cooler for the Ryzen 5 2600 to basically match the Core i5-8400 in this title. So while the gains and overall performance was excellent, the cost to achieve it is great.

So if you’re strictly gaming the 20% price premium of the overclocked Ryzen build can’t be easily justified for a 7% average gain. Alternatively, you could spend $500 on the Coffee Lake build and get the 8600K with a basic air cooler, enable MCE, and you’ve got an unstoppable gaming rig.]

I think a few people are getting carried away here

 

[humbug]

Get your fingers out of your ears. Go take a look at other forums and you will see that the 2600 needs better than a b350.
We get that you are impressed that it can beat a 8400 in a few games but lets not pretend its a white wash nor that average joe is going to be overclocking it to 4.2ghz with DDR4-3400 memory with tightened sub timings.


A couple of things Steve said that are worth noting




I think a few people are getting carried away here

Complete nonsense, i should find the proof to prove you right myself? you cannot back up a thing that you say, the reason i keep calling you out everytime you talk crap like this is because i have learned you make a lot of it up in a bid to bolster your arguments.

As for the Ram, average 3200Mhz Ram is £180 to £200, 3000Mhz Ram about the same... the 8Pack stuff is £220, i've seen it for £210 often, sometimes £200, so <£30> more.... Steve lives in Auz land where hardware components are expensive and premium stuff even more so.

 

[gavinh87]

Complete nonsense, i should find the proof to prove you right myself? you cannot back up a thing that you say, the reason i keep calling you out everytime you talk crap like this is because i have learned you make a lot of it up in a bid to bolster your arguments.

As for the Ram, average 3200Mhz Ram is £180 to £200, 3000Mhz Ram about the same... the 8Pack stuff is £220, i've seen it for £210 often, so <£30> more.... Steve lives in Auz land where hardware components are expensive and premium stuff even more so.

So go ahead and show me your board doing 3400+ on the memory. Only a matter of time before these poor b350 boards start to pop their **** weak vrms with 1.45v+ going through them.

 

[humbug]

So go ahead and show me your board doing 3400+ on the memory. Only a matter of time before these poor b350 boards start to pop their **** weak vrms with 1.45v+ going through them.

My Ram is 3000Mhz LPX, its cheap crap, it does a little above its rated speed on this board but it has no chance of running anywhere near 3400Mhz on any board.

Having said that i'm not saying the 8Pack stuff would, the chances are it will not, but it'll do 3200Mhz, its rated speed and that really doesn't make much difference from 3400Mhz.

 

[gavinh87]

My Ram is 3000Mhz LPX, its cheap crap, it does a little above its rated speed on this board but it has no chance of running anywhere near 3400Mhz on any board.

Having said that i'm not saying the 8Pack stuff would, the chances are it will not, but it'll do 3200Mhz, its rated speed and that really doesn't make much difference from 3400Mhz.

The point here is it took 3400mhz ram with tightened sub timings, an AIO and a (quite expensive) x340 board just to get within touching distance of a 8400 using 2666 on a stock cooler on a cheap b360 board.
Why does this matter? Well I've not seen any B350 board hit 3400, hell even on x370 that was a push. So to beat this 8400 you are going to want an x470 board.

This is all good and well if you like tinkering and overclocking, the vast majority however do not. And overclocking is always a lottery. For a gaming only system I would still recommend the 8400 over the 2600. Though AMD are on the right track.

 

[humbug]

The point here is it took 3400mhz ram with tightened sub timings, an AIO and a (quite expensive) x340 board just to get within touching distance of a 8400 using 2666 on a stock cooler on a cheap b360 board.
Why does this matter? Well I've not seen any B350 board hit 3400, hell even on x370 that was a push. So to beat this 8400 you are going to want an x470 board.

This is all good and well if you like tinkering and overclocking, the vast majority however do not. For a gaming only system I would still recommend the 8400 over the 2600. Though AMD are on the right track.

Well B450 boards are not out yet but i take your point.

It was done as you described, yes, but this doesn't mean its necessary to use those components. using an expensive Z370 board will have made no difference to the 8400, in the same way using an X470 board on the 2600 makes no difference to its performance, the motherboard makes no difference to the CPU's performance.

And it was not "within touching distance of a 8400" it was consistently 10 - 15% ahead, sometimes more.

 

[gavinh87]

Well B450 boards are not out yet but i take your point.

It was done as you described, yes, but this doesn't mean its necessary to use those components. using an expensive Z370 board will have made no difference to the 8400, in the same way using an X470 board on the 2600 makes no difference to its performance, the motherboard makes no difference to the CPU's performance.

And it was not "within touching distance of a 8400" it was consistently 10 - 15% ahead, sometimes more.

The motherboard will play a part in how far you can push the CPU and memory overclocks.
Not every CPU will do 4.2ghz the same as not every one can hit 3400mhz on the RAM.
I'd rather base my purchase on guaranteed performance rather than lottery.

36 Game Average
720P 8400 vs [email protected] = 4.9% avg | 7.2% mins
1080P 8400 vs [email protected] = 3.4% avg | 7.1% mins
1440P 8400 vs [email protected] = 2.5% avg | 6.1% mins

A far cry from the 10-15% consistently claim but hey, whatever makes you feel you made the right choice

 

[humbug]

Can we agree on this?

Intel 8400: £170
Ryzen 2600: £167 (the same)

Using conflated round averages if not overclocking the 8400 is 20% faster in games, if you are overclocking the 2600 is 10% faster in games, this measured with a GTX 1080TI at 720P, with a lesser GPU like the GTX 1080 at 1080P there will be nothing between these with the 2600 overclocked or not.

In productivity, which a lot of people do, they have hobbies outside of gaming involving their PC, the 2600 is much faster in most things, as an example the 2600 is 60% faster in Cinebench, which is actually from a real world application, Maxcom Cinema4D. 'Cited by Techspot'

My argument is the 2600 is unlocked, it overclocks with the push of a couple of buttons even on cheap motherboards, getting it to 4Ghz is going to be easy and that will work on its box cooler, cheaper Ram running at 3200Mhz.... its not going to make that much difference from Steves results, its a 5% clock difference and less in scaling on the Ram, so it would still match the 8400 at least in games while having that large performance advantage in productivity.

It has to be the 2600.

 

[gavinh87]

Can we agree on this?

Intel 8400: £170
Ryzen 2600: £167 (the same)

Using conflated round averages if not overclocking the 8400 is 20% faster in games, if you are overclocking the 2600 is 10% faster in games, this measured with a GTX 1080TI at 720P, with a lesser GPU like the GTX 1080 at 1080P there will be nothing between these with the 2600 overclocked or not.

In productivity, which a lot of people do, they have hobbies outside of gaming involving their PC, the 2600 is much faster in most things, as an example the 2600 is 60% faster in Cinebench, which is actually from a real world application, Maxcom Cinema4D. 'Cited by Techspot'

My argument is the 2600 is unlocked, it overclocks with the push of a couple of buttons even on cheap motherboards, getting it to 4Ghz is going to be easy and that will work on its box cooler, cheaper Ram running at 3200Mhz.... its not going to make that much difference from Steves results, its a 5% clock difference and less in scaling on the Ram, so it would still match the 8400 at least in games while having that large performance advantage in productivity.

It has to be the 2600.

Depends who its for, for myself that doesn't mind tinkering and entering the bios and messing with memory timings then for me I'd get the 2600 over the 8400.
If its for my brother that knows nothing and wants a build and forget gaming rig then I'd go with the 8400.

These are both purely on gaming situations, as per the video in discussion.

 

[4K8KW10]

Indeed, hence why i said needs a cooler

I don't understand the guff about stock coolers. I've used loads of Intel stock coolers over the years and they've been absolutely fine for running the CPU at stock. Obviously AMD's later ones are much better, but that's only making up for their abysmal ones during the prior generations that sounded like a hoover.

The Intel stock cooler isn't good enough, so, yes, @sideways14a is absolutely correct.
So, when you don't have a good case, it is extremely possible to get thermal throttling.

 

[humbug]

Depends who its for, for myself that doesn't mind tinkering and entering the bios and messing with memory timings then for me I'd get the 2600 over the 8400.
If its for my brother that knows nothing and wants a build and forget gaming rig then I'd go with the 8400.

These are both purely on gaming situations, as per the video in discussion.

I can agree with that.

But really, you need to teach your brother how to overclock CPU's, you just can't let him be ignorant to the free performance he would get from just pushing a couple of buttons

 

[gavinh87]

I can agree with that.

But really, you need to teach your brother how to overclock CPU's, you just can't let him be ignorant to the free performance he would get from just pushing a couple of buttons

I'll give him your phone number, see how far you get with him before throwing it up the wall!

 

[humbug]

I'll give him your phone number, see how far you get with him before throwing it up the wall!

Ah, .... i'll give it a miss... :O

 

[Chrisc]

Stop spreading fud the Intel CPU is clearly better because out of the box its just better, forget that you can turn Ryzen to 11, the Intel CPU is the better CPU because the box it comes in is blue and it has "Intel Inside" Logos and everything!!!!

Pfft AMD nonsense...

 

[koooowweeee]

I love a humbug thread.

 

[Martini1991]

The 4690K cooler that i had sounded like a leaf blower, that's a standard Intel cooler, it was twice as loud as the Ryzen spire cooler which actually is quiet.

I've used haswell stock coolers and found them to be just as quiet as this Ryzen spire I'm using.

 

[Drollic]

These threads are both awful and funny in equal measure. Some people must barely use their cpus they spend so long arguing on this forum

 

[JediFragger]

I love a humbug thread.

Mmmmmmm cherries

 

[sideways14a]

Jeesus this still going.
As for these stupid memory moans if you do 5 mins research you will find that there is not a huge gulf in price between decent ram for the 2600 and a little slower ram for the 8400. Both are stupidly overpriced at the moment.

The 8400 is crap, if it was an unlocked cpu i could get behind it but it aint. It wont age as well as the 2600x and it doesnt have the clocks that the 8700k can call on to keep it going.

 

[Potty27]

Can we agree on this?

Intel 8400: £170
Ryzen 2600: £167 (the same)

We'll from trusted retailers the i5 is currently £147 (has been under 150 for months), while £167 is the best for the Ryzen.

If using max overclocked figures to compare, it would make sense to show results for the i3-8350k overclocked (also aorund £150).

I imagine the 8350k OC would thrash Ryzen in most MMORPGs, especially the badly optomized(most) ones. In other games I suspect it would also perform well enough to make no real world difference.