Ryzen 7 5800X3d vs Ryzen 7 7700 vs i5 13600KF

[GoogalyMoogaly]

So my 8700K is getting on a bit and is a bit of a disappointing OCer (4.8GHz, couldn't get 4.9GHz with 1.3v and temps are high enough as it is).

So I've been considering the options in the title. They'd all cost similar money.
As I see it...

Ryzen 7 5800X3D is decent enough but it's all EOL now and it's performance has probably been surpassed by multiple options now. Plus you can't OC it or tweak it in many ways really.
Ryzen 7 7700 seems OK and would be DDR5 so that's nice. Being AMD there might be a nice upgrade path without having to change the motherboard. However to fit in with the price of the others I'd have to go with 16GB RAM instead of 32GB. Also, the 7700 would really be a stop gap for the 7800X3D (do we know if they're overclockable this time?), so that feels like a bit of a waste.
i5 13600KF seems from the incredibly small amount of research I've done that this might be the fastest overall and best at gaming? Downside here is that to fit in with this budget I'd go Z690 with DDR4, old tech but lets face it with Intel was there really much chance any of it would be reusable? I've probably done more Intel builds than AMD in the past though so in a way it feels a bit dull.

To me the obvious one to rule out is the 5800X3D, despite all the hype it seems to have had in the past it's probably not a good platform to move to now.
So that leaves the 7700 and the 13600KF. Feels like the 7700 setup is more futureproof with more upgrade possibilities but with the downside that the 7700 + 16GB DDR5 might not be as good as the 13600KF with 32GB DDR4.

Am I way off here?

I am a little confused with how the new Ryzen chips work, one review seemed to suggest they boost until they hit 95ºC (or a power limit) but other reviews didn't seem to show signs of them hitting 95ºC. Have I misunderstood something here?

 

[Tetras]

I assume you're only gaming?

How often do you plan to upgrade the CPU?

I haven't seen many articles on 16Gbit 8GB DDR5 sticks yet, but with DDR4 you can lose quite a lot of performance and in Hardware Unboxed's testing, they lost up to 7% (depends on the game), so I'm not sure I'd recommend this option. I'd even go as far as suggesting that a 7600 with 32GB may be faster than a 7700 with 16Gbit 8GB sticks.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

I assume you're only gaming?

How often do you plan to upgrade the CPU?

I haven't seen many articles on 16Gbit 8GB DDR5 sticks yet, but with DDR4 you can lose quite a lot of performance and in Hardware Unboxed's testing, they lost up to 7% (depends on the game), so I'm not sure I'd recommend this option. I'd even go as far as suggesting that a 7600 with 32GB may be faster than a 7700 with 16Gbit 8GB sticks.

Yeah, that's a consideration too, dropping down a CPU model and upping the RAM...

I wouldn't say I only game, I do a bit of this and that (like video encoding) but it will mostly be used for gaming.
As for how often I'd plan on upgrading the CPU, I'm not really sure, I guess it depends on how it goes. What becomes available, at what price and how does the 7700 (or X3D chip if I upgrade) compare.

 

[Tetras]

I wouldn't say I only game, I do a bit of this and that (like video encoding) but it will mostly be used for gaming.

For mixed work, the 13500 with a middle of the road B760 board might be a good choice for you, the 8 E-cores help it power through this kind of thing and it still performs well for games. Though, you might find it having only 6 P-cores off-putting...

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

For mixed work, the 13500 with a middle of the road B760 board might be a good choice for you, the 8 E-cores help it power through this kind of thing and it still performs well for games. Though, you might find it having only 6 P-cores off-putting...

You can't OC on a B760 board can you? Has that changed recently?

 

[Tetras]

You can't OC on a B760 board can you? Has that changed recently?

Yeah, you can't, I was just thinking about fitting everything in the budget.

 

[uscool]

I wouldnt do new build AM4 with 5800x3d , unless you already on AM4 platform

something like 13600k can use with ddr4 , cant with AM5 only ddr5 but the platform still has zen5/zen5 x3d still to come

 

[Bencher]

So my 8700K is getting on a bit and is a bit of a disappointing OCer (4.8GHz, couldn't get 4.9GHz with 1.3v and temps are high enough as it is).

So I've been considering the options in the title. They'd all cost similar money.
As I see it...

Ryzen 7 5800X3D is decent enough but it's all EOL now and it's performance has probably been surpassed by multiple options now. Plus you can't OC it or tweak it in many ways really.
Ryzen 7 7700 seems OK and would be DDR5 so that's nice. Being AMD there might be a nice upgrade path without having to change the motherboard. However to fit in with the price of the others I'd have to go with 16GB RAM instead of 32GB. Also, the 7700 would really be a stop gap for the 7800X3D (do we know if they're overclockable this time?), so that feels like a bit of a waste.
i5 13600KF seems from the incredibly small amount of research I've done that this might be the fastest overall and best at gaming? Downside here is that to fit in with this budget I'd go Z690 with DDR4, old tech but lets face it with Intel was there really much chance any of it would be reusable? I've probably done more Intel builds than AMD in the past though so in a way it feels a bit dull.

To me the obvious one to rule out is the 5800X3D, despite all the hype it seems to have had in the past it's probably not a good platform to move to now.
So that leaves the 7700 and the 13600KF. Feels like the 7700 setup is more futureproof with more upgrade possibilities but with the downside that the 7700 + 16GB DDR5 might not be as good as the 13600KF with 32GB DDR4.

Am I way off here?

I am a little confused with how the new Ryzen chips work, one review seemed to suggest they boost until they hit 95ºC (or a power limit) but other reviews didn't seem to show signs of them hitting 95ºC. Have I misunderstood something here?

Whatever you do, dont go for 16gb ddr5 ^

 

[G J]

If your able to hold on for a little while longer for the 7xxx X3D to release which seems to be Feb and see what the options are but whatever your choice you will be happy with the upgrade as I made the same jump last year from a 8700K to a 12600K.

As great as the 8700K was I'm glad I did the upgrade.

 

[Robert896r1]

If you can reuse ddr4 and know how to tune a little, 13600k+ddr4 on a z690 msi pro a or strix a is a good move.

An average 13600k will do around 5.6ghz all core and mem around 4100-4300 given your knowledge and IMC.

 

[Wing-Man]

the 7700 is not really an option right now, R5 5800X3d or i5 13600KF
DDR5 is much more adorable now But there will still be improvements. the question is how hold long do you plan to hold the new chip for and what do you have right now.

if this is a stop gap and you have AM4 then get the 5800X3d no questions asked. if you moving from an old socket but only planning on keeping the system for a year then 5800X3d or 13600KF what ever works out the cheapest.
If you plan to keep the socket and or chip for a long ass time then DDR5 is the way to go and with that Ryzen 7 7700 or i5 13600KF

 

[Kirby Wurm]

Quick question, not that I'm planning to upgrade at all but I'm just curious, how would a 13600K perform with DDR4 4400MHz CL19 RAM? Is it directly comparable in terms of specs with DDR5, so lower speed but better latency?

Also, what's the catch with 16GB DDR5? Sorry to piggyback the thread but I find it interesting.

As for the OP, I agree with @Wing-Man, and at this stage it's worth waiting a few weeks to see what the new X3D chips offer, if not to buy one then to have a hint of what AM5 can offer longer term.

 

[Bencher]

Quick question, not that I'm planning to upgrade at all but I'm just curious, how would a 13600K perform with DDR4 4400MHz CL19 RAM? Is it directly comparable in terms of specs with DDR5, so lower speed but better latency?

Also, what's the catch with 16GB DDR5? Sorry to piggyback the thread but I find it interesting.

As for the OP, I agree with @Wing-Man, and at this stage it's worth waiting a few weeks to see what the new X3D chips offer, if not to buy one then to have a hint of what AM5 can offer longer term.

From what ive observed, if you are running XMP, ddr5 > ddr4. If you are manually tunning then it's a wash, game dependant. If RPL had cometlake's IMC - 4400c15 would be possible without much hassle and it would probably poop all over current ddr5, but that's just my guess

 

[Wing-Man]

From what ive observed, if you are running XMP, ddr5 > ddr4. If you are manually tunning then it's a wash, game dependant. If RPL had cometlake's IMC - 4400c15 would be possible without much hassle and it would probably poop all over current ddr5, but that's just my guess

this is spot on, DDR5 as been about for a bit now, but not long enuf.
there is more speed to come what is classed as high end DDR5 now in 12 months will be basic stuff and with that the prices will change.

if i was building a PC now to last 5+ years it as to be DDR5 but the cheapest stuff i could find so i can replace latter.
the current intel and AMD sockets will(should... intel) have a refresh chip to come so there is life in the socket and an upgrade path if building on a budget now

 

[Deleted member 258511]

I would get 32gb of ram if at all possible.

 

[Wing-Man]

I would get 32gb of ram if at all possible.

why

 

[Deleted member 258511]

why

If you are building a decent system why get 16gb? It’s hardly going to be a huge difference in cost when already going for higher end parts especially. 32gb is the minimum I’d recommend.

 

[Wing-Man]

If you are building a decent system why get 16gb? It’s hardly going to be a huge difference in cost when already going for higher end parts especially. 32gb is the minimum I’d recommend.

so you think spending too much on ram now that in 12 months will be classed as low end is a good move. or do you buy the minimum needed now, and upgrade to much better ram in the future that you would have to upgrade to anyway even if you spent a load now

genuinely if i was buying ddr5 now i would buy this @ £80

Crucial 16GB (2X8GB) DDR5 PC5-38400C40 4800MHZ Dual Channel Kit

Order Crucial 16GB (2X8GB) DDR5 PC5-38400C40 4800MHZ Dual Channel Kit now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

the cheapest 6000Mhz kit as very high latency and costs £180, up until £240 ever ram kit is the same speed and latency.

Kingston FURY Renegade 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C32 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit

Order Kingston FURY Renegade 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C32 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

so you need to be spending around £280 right now for good DDR5, all the cheap stuff is a fast as fast ddr4 and costs more. but in around 12ish months things will be better and cheaper.

 

[Deleted member 258511]

so you think spending too much on ram now that in 12 months will be classed as low end is a good move. or do you buy the minimum needed now, and upgrade to much better ram in the future that you would have to upgrade to anyway even if you spent a load now

genuinely if i was buying ddr5 now i would buy this @ £80

Crucial 16GB (2X8GB) DDR5 PC5-38400C40 4800MHZ Dual Channel Kit

Order Crucial 16GB (2X8GB) DDR5 PC5-38400C40 4800MHZ Dual Channel Kit now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

the cheapest 6000Mhz kit as very high latency and costs £180, up until £240 ever ram kit is the same speed and latency.

Kingston FURY Renegade 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C32 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit

Order Kingston FURY Renegade 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C32 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

so you need to be spending around £280 right now for good DDR5, all the cheap stuff is a fast as fast ddr4 and costs more. but in around 12ish months things will be better and cheaper.

If you think of it that way, nothing will be the fastest in 12 months time. He’s buying a system now not in a years time. If you are gaming and running other tasks I would get 32gb.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

the 7700 is not really an option right now, R5 5800X3d or i5 13600KF
DDR5 is much more adorable now But there will still be improvements. the question is how hold long do you plan to hold the new chip for and what do you have right now.

if this is a stop gap and you have AM4 then get the 5800X3d no questions asked. if you moving from an old socket but only planning on keeping the system for a year then 5800X3d or 13600KF what ever works out the cheapest.
If you plan to keep the socket and or chip for a long ass time then DDR5 is the way to go and with that Ryzen 7 7700 or i5 13600KF

Currently have a i7 8700k so no can't just drop in a 5800X3D it'd have to be a build just for it.

As for how long I'd be keeping it, I guess that sort of depends on what happens in the future and how it holds up. If we only get small increments I guess it could last a while, if there's a big jump (e.g. 3D VCache across the board) then it might feel like it needs updating sooner. I mean currently I'm about to retire a 4770K and with this upgrade a 3930K, so it's not unheard of that I'll hold on to it for a while (I have a sort of hand-me-down system where I shuffle stuff down into less used PCs).
I am tempted to wait for the new X3D chips, but I do worry that they'll be expensive or run hot or won't be OC-able (not the end of the world, but where's the fun in that). Maybe I skip this generation of X3D chips and wait for an 8000 series X3D chip (get a bit more use out of the 7700) assuming they be compatible with AM5 and the current chipsets.