Salary not being revealed

Generally I wouldn't entertain a position that doesn't list a salary, however, if you know what the norm is for a position in a specific sector then it shouldn't put you off.
I am a firm believer in the 'if the salary is so competitive, why won't you tell me what it is' train of thought though. I have seen some real copium on LinkedIn from recruiters trying to justify not listing them too :)
 
EvilRob said:
No salary listed is different than going all the way through the process without some kind of alignment on expectation. That doesn't make very much sense from both sides IMO. Even if salary is open to negotiation a company will still have a budget.

Side note, since it's become requirement in California it's interesting to see US tech companies now putting ranges on their roles across the US. Eye opening in some cases. Although in many cases they go for a very wide range.
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The salary ranges advertised in the USA are pretty useless though, as they're usually a massive range, and not narrowly aligned with what they actually want to offer.

Range: $100K to $500K (and by that, we mean, we only want to pay you $100K).

Also, in tech companies, it's common to offer stock options or stock units as a decently large portion of an overall compensation package, and these are never mentioned in the range. This is why websites like https://levels.fyi and www.teamblind.com have helped a lot in increasing pay transparency.
 
jon86 said:
The salary ranges advertised in the USA are pretty useless though, as they're usually a massive range, and not narrowly aligned with what they actually want to offer.

Range: $100K to $500K (and by that, we mean, we only want to pay you $100K).

Also, in tech companies, it's common to offer stock options or stock units as a decently large portion of an overall compensation package, and these are never mentioned in the range. This is why websites like https://levels.fyi and www.teamblind.com have helped a lot in increasing pay transparency.
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Most of the base salary ranges I have seen in my industry are wide, but not that wide - the max is usually less double the min. I would guess based on roles I have very close experience with that the midpoint of the range is roughly right.
 
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Let's break this down... You went for a job which did not advertise how much you will get paid. That is mistake number 1. Never do that. Ever.

When a company advertises a range or mentions a range, they give you hope that you might be somewhere in the middle of it perhaps, or, depending on experience (DOE) may come in at the top of a range. I cannot emphasize enough that the vast majority of companies will want to pay you as little as possible, which means always the bottom of the range. They will use many tactics and BS to under value you or claim that their hands are tied due to HR and can only pay X. Bla bla bla. Often they set a range and then deliberately put the lower end way below market average so they can look like they are offering you a great deal being middle or towards the top of said range.

Whatever happens, you negotiate and go in hard and high. Always. This is the one time you hold cards and can try to boost income as you can't rely on bonus and pay rises. Starting a new job is the time to not be modest. You have to be aggressive and sell yourself.

To not mention a range at all even when asked is playing people like yourself as a mug. Many people are desperate though so take it as don't want to ruin chances. What does it say about the employer going forward when they want to invite you into the company to work for them but can't be upfront about wages?

You have to be firm but fair and remain polite. "If you can't give me a salary I'm afraid I can't commit to the interview." Don't even mention a range. Don't tell them what you are on either until they give you a salary. They will find out what you were on when they get your P45 if it's not a contract job. You could lie, people do, but if it's a big lie you might find yourself not passing probation.
they want you to say what you are on so that if it is lower then they have authority to pay for that role, they can instantly give you the "ah well yes that's actually about where this role is at as it happens" BS.

It's all an awkward game even for the ones that do it properly. :)
 
Thanks for everyones input.

In the first interview, they asked me what salary I am on. However, they didn't ask any other information such as bonus etc.

I feel like I should go back and say without some kind of salary bracket no point going any further?
 
Companies won’t always tell you the salary pre final interview, and as a rule of thumb, you shouldn’t bring it up before then.

Prove/evidence your worth and capability and then have the discussion.
 
aspiring said:
I feel like I should go back and say without some kind of salary bracket no point going any further?
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How much do you want this job? Are you finding a lot of interesting jobs to apply for? Are you getting lots of interviews? Do you have a lot of interviewing experience and success in interviewing?

If you're not too bothered about this job, are finding other jobs to apply for, are already getting a lot of positive responses from jobs you're interested in, and feel relaxed and comfortable in interviews then you may as well play hard ball over this. Otherwise, going to an interview is an afternoon of your life, not a unreasonable amount to risk on a potentially good job. And if the salary stuff can't be sorted, well, you got a bit of interview practice that will help you with your next job.

The question of why this happens was asked on a Stack Exchange a little while back, and I thought got a decent answer.
 
Mr Jack said:
The question of why this happens was asked on a Stack Exchange a little while back, and I thought got a decent answer.
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There's a lot of sense there.

The job I accepted this weekend after 2 weeks of interviewing at a variety of places was one of the ones which didn't advertise a salary range.

They asked in my first interview with their HR lead what sort of salary I was looking for and after 2 further interviews, one online with their CFO and the other in person with their UK staff, they came in with an offer at the top of the range I gave them.

Could I have been more amibitious and got a bit more? Maybe. However I already knew what sort of salary the role commanded, what sort of salary someone at my stage in their career commanded, and that the range I gave them was towards the upper end of those ranges. I'm generally wary of pushing my luck in the professional sense. I'd rather an offer comes about mutually like it did in my case without a load of back and forth.
 
MrRockliffe said:
Companies won’t always tell you the salary pre final interview, and as a rule of thumb, you shouldn’t bring it up before then.

Prove/evidence your worth and capability and then have the discussion.
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But surely they will have some threshold they can tell me?
 
Mr Jack said:
How much do you want this job? Are you finding a lot of interesting jobs to apply for? Are you getting lots of interviews? Do you have a lot of interviewing experience and success in interviewing?

If you're not too bothered about this job, are finding other jobs to apply for, are already getting a lot of positive responses from jobs you're interested in, and feel relaxed and comfortable in interviews then you may as well play hard ball over this. Otherwise, going to an interview is an afternoon of your life, not a unreasonable amount to risk on a potentially good job. And if the salary stuff can't be sorted, well, you got a bit of interview practice that will help you with your next job.

The question of why this happens was asked on a Stack Exchange a little while back, and I thought got a decent answer.
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Finding it easy to get interviews and subsequent offers to be honest.

This role is slightly different to other roles I have gone for in terms of more workload and more level of responsbility.

Your right it is an afternoon but equally it is a lot of prep I suppose?
 
MrRockliffe said:
Companies won’t always tell you the salary pre final interview, and as a rule of thumb, you shouldn’t bring it up before then.
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I'm not even getting out of bed before knowing what's on the table. Nobody goes to work for fun, tell me how much you're paying or gtfo.

I can appreciate a bit of confidentiality and discretion so no advertising it in a job posting but if they can't tell me what it is when I ask, they're either going to try and lowball me or they suck at accounting, simple as that.
 
Diddums said:
I'm not even getting out of bed before knowing what's on the table. Nobody goes to work for fun, tell me how much you're paying or gtfo.
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Yeah,

My way of dealing with this is to tell them what I'm currently earning, and what I'd ldeally accept if I was successful in the process, at the very first discussion with a recruiter or the employee themselves.

There was only one time when I didn't discuss salary until the end, and that was with a FANNG, however I already knew the ballpark figure so it wasn't going to be a problem.
 
Diddums said:
I'm not even getting out of bed before knowing what's on the table. Nobody goes to work for fun, tell me how much you're paying or gtfo.

I can appreciate a bit of confidentiality and discretion so no advertising it in a job posting but if they can't tell me what it is when I ask, they're either going to try and lowball me or they suck at accounting, simple as that.
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Disagree with that. Sometimes they’ve not had the conversation with relevant people - there are many reasons why it might not be worth bringing it up yet.

Plus, there’s more to a job than just money. Not all companies are looking for people only driven by money, so if it’s one of the first questions you lead with, it might be an indicator that you’re not the right person


Not saying don’t bring it up, just saying that you should try and judge the situation and make the best of it according to your needs.
 
Always make it clear up front what the minimum starting point is before you waste anyone’s time, not least your own. In that very first discussion lay it out. Any company who is unwilling to have that discussion is naive or are hiring from a big pot of possibles.

“We don’t think we can meet your wage demands”

“No problem. Good luck with your search and feel free to approach me again if that mindset changes.”

Any company who doesn’t want money driven people more often wants cheap bums on seats. There are of course always exceptions, but as a rule.
 
EvilRob said:
In similar situations I've got in touch with them and said "I'm looking for comp in the range of £x-£y, I'd like to make sure that aligns with your budget for the role before we both invest time in moving forward with the interview process". If they fobbed me off at that point I doubt I would move forward but hasn't happened so far.
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Usually this is a first stop, not because I'm money obsessed but because it's indicative of the role seniority. Interview is a two way street - you're interviewing the organisation as well.
 
MrRockliffe said:
Plus, there’s more to a job than just money. Not all companies are looking for people only driven by money, so if it’s one of the first questions you lead with, it might be an indicator that you’re not the right person
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Wut? If you're loaded, retired etc, work can be used to keep active and social, for those of us who are neither, we go to work for the £££'s.

I don't buy into the "we are all one big family" etc, i go to work for £'s so i can use that money to live and fund the things i enjoy doing - nothing more.
 
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