Salary not being revealed
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The "boring conversation about money" should literally take about a minute early on in the process to verify a good match in expectations and that neither party is wasting their time.
You aren't going to get a company to pay you what you request if they have already established a budget for the role and it's significantly different. I've been there as a hiring manager with great candidates and it's a "thanks but no thanks". This happens pretty frequently when someone is over qualified for the role they have applied for - quite common in the current market. Companies have very different internal levelling and banding, even when they should be industry benchmarking and know better. A conversation about comp up front cuts right through this on both sides.
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Sorry but I disagree.
1. if a non-board role then an org position will have a salary range associated with it to get the headcount approval in the first place. This should include a job description.
2. If board role or singular headhunt the they will want to know after they are convinced. Expect negotiation to follow.
The concern I would have is that they have gone shopping, found the individual and then raised the req for the org position. Careful and ensure you have written terms of reference before signing.
So then money discussion should be upfront, it also reinforces the job description. Nobody should be expected to work for nothing and the discussion about pay makes it clear that the business is treating you like human being and not a slave. It’s a teoway street.
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I don't apply to jobs that say "competitive" or "negotiable".
Can't be bothered with those games. If its competitive putting the salary range is the best way to get candidates. You either don't know, or you're trying to get someone on the cheap. I don't want to work there.
Quit playing games, it's the most import bit of a job for most people.
And asking for previous salary.. And basing it off that openly? No.. Pass on that too.
Its a waste of everyone's time to not even know if you're in potential alignment at final interview
Can't be bothered with those games. If its competitive putting the salary range is the best way to get candidates. You either don't know, or you're trying to get someone on the cheap. I don't want to work there.
Quit playing games, it's the most import bit of a job for most people.
And asking for previous salary.. And basing it off that openly? No.. Pass on that too.
Its a waste of everyone's time to not even know if you're in potential alignment at final interview
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Absolutely definitely the majority.
See how many people would work if they were minted. I sure wouldn't.
Some permit miss it. But they probably have more empty lives or very rewarding jobs (ie charity or doing what they actually love)
But the vast vast majority do it for the dough.
Any job that say "competitive" for salary, usually means the pay is manure.
Unfortunately it's generally low, so it's no wonder that they're finding it hard to find recruits.
I've not encountered a single employer that didn't know what they'd pay me based on whatever level I interviewed for (and achieved). Even the smallest of startups have known what they want to pay.
Whenever I interview, I always know what number I'm willing to settle for, and if the company doesn't want to get close to the number or doesn't want to at least divulge a range, I end the conversation there, unless I've got reliable information already from levels.fyi or Blind.
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Soldato
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“We‘re one big family here.” is a huge Red Flag to me. It always means “we’re going to be poorly organised, wildly biased towards certain employees when it comes to salaries/promotions and basically expect you to work loads of overtime, often unpaid to make up for the lazy and the useless members of staff.”
Won't stay in business long if they do that, so good choice.
They have sent me interview details and it is quite full on.
I am thinking of not wasting my time and pulling out?
In that case, you may as well clearly state your salary requirements before attending and see if they balk.
I know someone who works at the place and having explained what I was looking for salary wise, they said there is no chance of such an uplift
"Deer X, before engaging in the interview process further, could I have confirmation of the salary for the role please?"
A response with anything other than the salary or a good range indicator, would mean I would either blank them in response just out of spite of their annoying incompetence, or would terminate all dealings. When I say a good range...if a job stated 50-100k, that's immediate red flags obviously. Where as 50-70 is better. 60-70 is ideal for example, as you can clearly see what you might earn.
If they came back still beating around the bush...
"Unfortunately because you have not confirmed the pay for the job, I cannot continue with any interview processes. Regards."
That's if you don't want to burn bridges in case someone opens their eyes and changes tune.
If you don't care;
"Unfortunately since you have not mentioned the pay for the job, I cannot mention how many hours I can work. Are you still interested?"
Or
"I don't work for free."
Etc
Some of these idiots should really be called out.
it is just so frustrating, they have obviously asked me salary I am on to low ball me. The interview for final stage is intense and requires a lot of work.
You told them what your current salary is? If so then yes, quite possibly they will, especially if what you actually want is a big uplift from where you are currently.
Best to try and avoid answering that question and give them a desired range if pushed, really they ought to then at least acknowledge if the desired range is in the same ballpark so you both don't waste each other's time.
If it's only one round left and isn't going to take all day I'd still be inclined to go for it (both for the practice and to see if you actually do get an offer), might as well get the confidence boost of having an offer made, if they're unwilling to offer as much as you're looking for though then you don't need to feel guilty turning them down as this is something they had the opportunity to address much earlier in the process and didn't.
Also, you don't need to turn them down right away, you can do things like tell them you want to think about the offer over the weekend etc.. then come back and push for more money... then see what they say etc.. It could be interesting to see how much they're prepared to budge from their initial offer (not necessarily because you're going to take it, if they're still too far away from what you want but it gives you a feel for how much hiring managers leave to the side in case they need to negotiate).
Ultimately if they can't offer you enough then that's their problem. You get better practice at interviews, you don't reveal current comp at the next one etc..
Why are you even wasting everyones time then?
Soldato
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You said in the OP that you’re wanting a salary at least £40k above where you are now.
Are you that underpaid currently or is the role a significant step up? Just trying to see this from the company’s POV.
This role is massive step up and would have direct line reports vs 0 in current role alongside other responsibilities.
This is why current salary should not come into it considering my current role is totally different.
Also once your at a company it is difficult to get significant wage increases.