There's a difference between going to work for the £££s and the £££s being the only important thing about the job. You spend a huge amount of your life working, if that time is making you stressed and unhappy then it is not worth getting a few extra £s for. For most people a bit less money for a lot more quality of life is a worthwhile trade.
Salary not being revealed
- Thread starter aspiring
- Start date
There's a difference between going to work for the £££s and the £££s being the only important thing about the job. You spend a huge amount of your life working, if that time is making you stressed and unhappy then it is not worth getting a few extra £s for. For most people a bit less money for a lot more quality of life is a worthwhile trade.
Absolutely, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. No-one is planning on working for free.
That's my point. Why even look at a company that doesn't start with the one single reason we all go to work? When I'm looking for staff it's right there, front and centre, none of this "apply and we'll discuss it" nonsense.
In fact if I ever become PM I'll make it illegal to advertise jobs with no salary.
Vote for Diddums.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Apr 2014
- Posts
- 7,354
- Location
- Hampshire
You've asked already, if it's just one final interview and it doesn't involve taking a whole day off work etc.. then I don't see why not.
If anything the onus is on them to make an offer now and whatever offer they give you should ask for more.
That’s fine, but not everyone is like that
I would say that the majority of people who work, do so for the money. It is BS when companies talk about being one large family, their aim is to make profit and when they aren't, the employee is merely a resource to discard. Yet, they will ask the earth of you and your time.
Salary is important, I'm not talking about always chasing the highest possible amount, but about trying to strike that happy medium ie work/life balance.
Are you a recruiter? Is that why you have signed up to the BS of "no need to mention salary" brigade?
Last edited:
I really like to know how Austria got the point where its illegal to advise jobs without displaying salary.
We should follow.
All least organisations ran by the government displays salary such as the NHS and Police.
Last edited:
More likely just fallen for the recruiter spiel. No reasonable company is going to perceive it negatively if you ask about comp in early conversations.
I'd be more worried if they didn't ask. Want kind of business sense do they have if they are willing to invest significant amounts of their time without determining whether the ROI is is there? Will they mess about doing that when they work for me?
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 10,006
- Location
- Billericay, UK
Just remember when they ask what salary your on don't forget base pay is likely only part of you compensation. Car allowance, bonus scheme, pension contributions, flexible benefits all play a part so when you asked what your earn give them the total cash number (annualised total of your base pay, pension, bonus etc) and say of which £xx,xxx is my base salary and make sure you find out what they pay in terms of benefits (no good getting more salary only to lose out by getting less benefits).
Just looked at own payroll and other compensation makes up 35% of my annual income, it's always tricky when someone askes 'what salary your looking for?' The approach I take is I give them a range based on industry research and what other companies are paying for similar roles but I always caveat it by saying it's open for discussion depending on what benefits and pension contributions that's being offered.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Apr 2014
- Posts
- 7,354
- Location
- Hampshire
Nope, just an individual who works where I do because of the people there. Money is just a tool to live - it just needs to be enough to support my lifestyle but is otherwise meaningless to me.
Thankfully, it is sufficient so I work here because I enjoy it.
You are contradicting yourself. You work where you do, because of the people there, but in the next breath you say money is a tool to live? Therefore there is a minimum amount you would be prepared to accept for your salary, so what is the problem with asking your potential place of work, "what is the salary?".
Or even better, the company detailing the salary in the job spec or mentioning it during the interview process?
Or even better, the company detailing the salary in the job spec or mentioning it during the interview process?
I feel like there's some confusion. It seems like some people are saying the salary is all that matters! Others are not saying salary doesn't matter, they are simply saying there are other factors.
I subscribe to the latter. Yes, money is important, but if someone from a different company came and offered me 20% more but for a competitor, almost certainly I would say no.
**EDIT** Mind you, maybe not as in both of those cases, you would still want to know the salary of any job you were applying to...
I subscribe to the latter. Yes, money is important, but if someone from a different company came and offered me 20% more but for a competitor, almost certainly I would say no.
**EDIT** Mind you, maybe not as in both of those cases, you would still want to know the salary of any job you were applying to...
Last edited:
What I would say and remind anyone when talking about this kind of career stuff. You have to look after number 1. If you think this means being a bit selfish, then yeah, fine, call it that. There's a lot of talk of TEAMWORK and being in a TEAM at work, but when it comes to negotiating your actual role, duties and pay, it's all about you and you only. You don't get interviewed or assessed as a team, aside from project/team orientated bonuses which tend to be much less than personal ones. There becomes a significant argument to attaching bonuses to "teams" as just matching BAU and what you should be doing anyway. Can of worms there....
Anyway... my point is you can't be too nice in business. Making decisions based on emotions or people is dangerous. I really hate seeing people in roles where they fear for their jobs to the point where they become a yes man. My wife is too nice with her employers. I'm constantly telling her to tell them politely to **** off with their demands but alas it's habitual and once you start down that road of extra duties without being compensated, it's hard to get off of it.
Just remember to always and without prejudice ask yourself out loud, "Am I being mugged off here?". Try to answer it from someone on the outside looking in.
Anyway... my point is you can't be too nice in business. Making decisions based on emotions or people is dangerous. I really hate seeing people in roles where they fear for their jobs to the point where they become a yes man. My wife is too nice with her employers. I'm constantly telling her to tell them politely to **** off with their demands but alas it's habitual and once you start down that road of extra duties without being compensated, it's hard to get off of it.
Just remember to always and without prejudice ask yourself out loud, "Am I being mugged off here?". Try to answer it from someone on the outside looking in.
Yeah I agree. Honestly it's like advertising a car or a house for sale with "contact to discuss" or "offers over 1 pound". Honestly it's a great car.... let's discuss it.
No.
Scroll on past.
I don't think anyone is saying it wouldn't be better to have a clearer idea of salary earlier in the process, but the fact is that many companies don't work that way, sometimes for reasonable reasons, sometimes not, and you - as an individual - can't change that.
The question is how hard you should push over it, and whether you should consider it a deal breaker. IMO, it's not, and in a world where many companies do it, you are better to treat it as a minor annoyance and see where things lead rather than getting stuck up on it. I think the risk of missing out on a good job is worse than the risk that you end up not agreeing terms after a successful interview.
The question is how hard you should push over it, and whether you should consider it a deal breaker. IMO, it's not, and in a world where many companies do it, you are better to treat it as a minor annoyance and see where things lead rather than getting stuck up on it. I think the risk of missing out on a good job is worse than the risk that you end up not agreeing terms after a successful interview.
I can't think of many things I'd like to do less than do 2 or 3 interviews along with the prep, expense, travel, time, only to get offered a role with pay that did not meet my expectations and rendered the last X weeks of my life invested in the process as a complete waste. I'd rather go to a Spurs match in a Spurs shirt than do that. At least I would get to see real comedy.
Disagree with everything you have written in this whole thread. Not had the relevant conversation with relevant people, is that a joke? When a company makes a role and starts planning to advertise it, literally the first thing they will need to decide on is a salary range, before even putting it online.
Not driven by money? Money is the reason 99% of people go to work.
If a company doesn't have the decency to at least say a salary range right at the start, then it's complete disrespect to any potential candidates. Maybe you like wasting time applying for jobs that are below your salary requirement, but the rest of us value our time a lot more.
You are probably the type of person that stays late at work most days, works X extra hours, gets nothing in return, then says 'its just how it is', right?
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Apr 2014
- Posts
- 7,354
- Location
- Hampshire
Not at all
I work the hours needed to perform my role. When this is out of balance for too long, I either discuss with my manager about getting a pay rise or I leave.This is what they should do, yes, but I have regular first hand experience of how this isn’t the case.
HR will typically use their current internal banding to give an idea on pay, but this is only for a company where they have an internal HR team. I’ve worked in smaller companies where the salary hasn’t been decided until it’s discussed in the final interview. AKA you write your own salary.
I’ve only worked for one company who do proper benchmarking on salary and give it up front.
But it isn’t the reason why most people stay/leave.
I know what my market worth is. The company will know what my market worth is once I evidence it.
Why have a boring conversation about money when I know what I’m going to get them to pay me if/when I decide the role is right for me. Considerably more important and interesting conversations to have.
Last edited:
That's iffy, especially if you've only ever worked at small companies.
The reason for trying to establish a range upfront is because you want to know you're in the right ballpark at least without wasting your time or theirs... what's the point in getting to the end of the process and finding you're completely far apart from each other?
It's nice to feel confident but "I know what I’m going to get them to pay me if/when I decide the role is right for me" isn't necessarily going to work in reality.
A start-up might pay much less than an established firm but offer equity, a tech company advertising on indeed.com might well operate on completely different pay scales to the sort featured on levels.fyi.