Salary not being revealed

[panthro]

About 4 or 5 years ago, I had a 3 stage interview with a FTSE 100 company. I told them my current salary from the start and what my expectations were. They would not tell me the salary but insisted it would be competitive. Once I was offered the position, their salary was £12.5k under what I was being paid at the time. They tried to reason that the bonus, share save, pension etc. equated to much more than my base salary, which I had to point out was ridiculous because I was already paid a bonus (which is never a guaranteed pay out) and pension. I had to decline in the end and since then I have insisted on not moving forwards with any interview process until the salary is confirmed.

 

[FishThrower]

About 4 or 5 years ago, I had a 3 stage interview with a FTSE 100 company. I told them my current salary from the start and what my expectations were. They would not tell me the salary but insisted it would be competitive. Once I was offered the position, their salary was £12.5k under what I was being paid at the time. They tried to reason that the bonus, share save, pension etc. equated to much more than my base salary, which I had to point out was ridiculous because I was already paid a bonus (which is never a guaranteed pay out) and pension. I had to decline in the end and since then I have insisted on not moving forwards with any interview process until the salary is confirmed.

that is ridiculous and sounds like you dodged a bullet, didnt they counter offer when you declined their first offer? or just went straight for the perks?

 

[peterwalkley]

About 4 or 5 years ago, I had a 3 stage interview with a FTSE 100 company. I told them my current salary from the start and what my expectations were. They would not tell me the salary but insisted it would be competitive. Once I was offered the position, their salary was £12.5k under what I was being paid at the time. They tried to reason that the bonus, share save, pension etc. equated to much more than my base salary, which I had to point out was ridiculous because I was already paid a bonus (which is never a guaranteed pay out) and pension. I had to decline in the end and since then I have insisted on not moving forwards with any interview process until the salary is confirmed.

LOL ... just deluded ! I hope you slated them on glassdoor.

i can't see any logic to what they were thinking, unless they had someone internal lined up already but had to go through the motions of looking externally, because stupid corporate reasons.

 

[Lopéz]

I really like to know how Austria got the point where its illegal to advise jobs without displaying salary.

We should follow.

All least organisations ran by the government displays salary such as the NHS and Police.

It's really useful. The salary advertised is whatever has been determined as the minimum salary for that job role by the collective bargaining agreement (sort of like a union).

You can of course negotiate a much higher salary than this, but it's a good starting point to stop people wasting their time.

 

[D.P.]

About 4 or 5 years ago, I had a 3 stage interview with a FTSE 100 company. I told them my current salary from the start and what my expectations were. They would not tell me the salary but insisted it would be competitive. Once I was offered the position, their salary was £12.5k under what I was being paid at the time. They tried to reason that the bonus, share save, pension etc. equated to much more than my base salary, which I had to point out was ridiculous because I was already paid a bonus (which is never a guaranteed pay out) and pension. I had to decline in the end and since then I have insisted on not moving forwards with any interview process until the salary is confirmed.

But what do you mean by confirmed. You won't get a contract until you have finished the interview process. You might get a confirmation that they can pay up to X, but your confirmed offer could be much lower of they don't think you are at a level to get the max salary

 

[D.P.]

It's really useful. The salary advertised is whatever has been determined as the minimum salary for that job role by the collective bargaining agreement (sort of like a union).

You can of course negotiate a much higher salary than this, but it's a good starting point to stop people wasting their time.

That is probably more effective, getting a guaranteed minimum. But then you face the opposite problem where the minimum is a lot lower than you want to get but you have to hope they will be more generous at offer time

 

[Lopéz]

That is probably more effective, getting a guaranteed minimum. But then you face the opposite problem where the minimum is a lot lower than you want to get but you have to hope they will be more generous at offer time

Yep, I had exactly this when I applied for my current job.

"The minimum salary determined by the collective bargaining agreement is 14 salaries at XXXXXX"

"Hi, yes I am interested in the role but I need a salary of double that"

"Ok"

 

[panthro]

But what do you mean by confirmed. You won't get a contract until you have finished the interview process. You might get a confirmation that they can pay up to X, but your confirmed offer could be much lower of they don't think you are at a level to get the max salary

Feel free to amend the word confirmed to provided.

 

[Freddie1980]

Exactly pay should reflect role.

They have said they will pay according to benchmark for this role too but that has not been revealed either

This is on you though, you need to do your own research and find the same or similar roles to get an idea of what salaries are on offer. Just bear in mind you will need to consider the impact of additional benefits that may be offered by some places that offer a lower base hence why there is a range so try and find the mid-point. When you go for your interview and they ask you what you salary expectations are you can say 'well based on my experience and my research on similar roles my salary expectations would be around £xx,xxx a year but that would be dependant on other factors such as bonus incentives, pension contribiutions and other benefits'.

 

[jaybee]

....
But then any candidate demanding explicit salary information at the strat of the interview process would likely be rejected anyway as that is simply not the kind of person we would on our team

And you're company is simply not the kind of place I would want to work for.
You do realize that 99% of sane candidates will ask about salary?

Oh wait...

If they are more focused on salary rather than the actual work they might do, the team, working environment, opportunities for career progression, expectations and requirements, travel requirements, the companies vision and roadmap, growth of the business unit, technology stack, opportunities for learning , opportunities to take on more responsibility,

Sounds like you are in management....

Furthermore, if someone is singularly focused on salary to the point they don't interview without specific details then the candidate would be at risk of either trying to extortion higher pay rises or will simply jump ship as soon as they have a better offer.

...as well as delusional. My sympathies.

 

[Demon]

Had a first round initial interview which was positive. After this, I was quickly invited for final stage.

I asked what the salary was. I got told there is no set figure/range and it depends on current salary, experience and standard across industry.

During the interview, I was asked what my current salary was. For me the salary for this role needs to be at least 40k above what I am currently on for my current role which is obviously a huge uplift but this new role has far greater responsibility than my current role.
I don't really want to go for final interview and then get a low offer.

Not sure how to tell them or do I go to final stage?

It is absolutely crazy of any company to not gather 'expectations' before interviewing or progressing.. that boggles my mind..

I've had someone get hung up on salary.. We had a senior manager leave, and decided to offer the role to one of his sub-ords, but at the lower end of the salary range simply as they had no real demonstrable experience, other than we felt he had some potential.. it's still £20k more than he's on.. he came back after talking to his wife and wanted to know the salary for an experienced manager, we gave him the salary band thinking he wants to know where he could be with more experience, but actually just went in immediately asking for the top end as his wife felt we where just trying to get cheap labour and are low-balling him. I tried to reason with him that experience matters and whilst we had faith he could get there, we need him to grow (including us investing in mentoring/training) and demonstrate to then get that extra reward (would be 3 figures which is not too bad for this area/sector).

In the end we declined, he moved on, and looking at his career, he stayed down the technical path before moving up to technical management, but as they are recruiting for those roles currently, their top end is £25k below our top end, so I'm going to say he's most likely not achieved the same salary..

 

[OspreyO]

It is absolutely crazy of any company to not gather 'expectations' before interviewing or progressing.. that boggles my mind..

I've had someone get hung up on salary.. We had a senior manager leave, and decided to offer the role to one of his sub-ords, but at the lower end of the salary range simply as they had no real demonstrable experience, other than we felt he had some potential.. it's still £20k more than he's on.. he came back after talking to his wife and wanted to know the salary for an experienced manager, we gave him the salary band thinking he wants to know where he could be with more experience, but actually just went in immediately asking for the top end as his wife felt we where just trying to get cheap labour and are low-balling him. I tried to reason with him that experience matters and whilst we had faith he could get there, we need him to grow (including us investing in mentoring/training) and demonstrate to then get that extra reward (would be 3 figures which is not too bad for this area/sector).

In the end we declined, he moved on, and looking at his career, he stayed down the technical path before moving up to technical management, but as they are recruiting for those roles currently, their top end is £25k below our top end, so I'm going to say he's most likely not achieved the same salary..

I would say for every story like that there are 1000 people who end up covering the higher position on a lower salary with an expectation of getting the higher salary but never do.

Once you accept the lower salary for the same work, where's the incentive to increase it?

 

[Demon]

I would say for every story like that there are 1000 people who end up covering the higher position on a lower salary with an expectation of getting the higher salary but never do.

Once you accept the lower salary for the same work, where's the incentive to increase it?

It's a false equivalence though..

If you have two candidates:
A. Someone wanting to step up, shows promise, but ultimately can't demonstrate they have direct experience of operating at that higher level with far greater responsibilities.
B. Someone already doing a similar role with plenty of direct demonstrable experience of operating at that higher level.

Then everything else being equal, why would someone with little experience expect the same salary as someone with plenty of experience? Experience has a value..

Additionally, lets say you pay them both equally, what do you think the less experienced person is going to do when they gain more experience and are performing at their peak? they'll want more reward, or go seek more reward elsewhere...

The incentive for the business to pay more is that the less experienced person gains experience, then becomes a more valuable commodity on the job market, therefore not increasing his salary puts them at risk of leaving for better opportunities..

 

[EvilRob]

I would say for every story like that there are 1000 people who end up covering the higher position on a lower salary with an expectation of getting the higher salary but never do.

Once you accept the lower salary for the same work, where's the incentive to increase it?

Those internal opportunities where they know you and see your potential for a role you have little direct experience of and would have have a significant learning curve for are GOLD. It's very difficult to get an external company to give you that kind of opportunity. If they don't make good on upping your comp towards the midpoint once you have learned the role and proved yourself, then you can cash in your experience elsewhere.

Doing this multiple times is pretty much the foundation of building a career and getting to senior levels.

 

[OspreyO]

You can have a temporary bump in salary for an acting role, or a probationary period with an agreed bump if it all works out.
But too often you see people taking on these roles and not being rewarded for it. Forums are full of it. See it a lot myself.
You see on this forum, so many people have to leave to get an offer of a promotion or salary increase. At which point they've already made the decision to leave.

I think thats more vastly common than promises being honoured down the line.

No risk no reward maybe.

 

[HangTime]

I agree with both points of view above:

people who end up covering the higher position on a lower salary with an expectation of getting the higher salary but never do.

Once you accept the lower salary for the same work, where's the incentive to increase it?

Those internal opportunities where they know you and see your potential for a role you have little direct experience of and would have have a significant learning curve for are GOLD. It's very difficult to get an external company to give you that kind of opportunity. If they don't make good on upping your comp towards the midpoint once you have learned the role and proved yourself, then you can cash in your experience elsewhere.

Doing this multiple times is pretty much the foundation of building a career and getting to senior levels.

Until recently my career journey has generally been:

• Join company on an OK baseline salary
• Get promoted on a crap salary i.e. insufficient increment over old job
• Gain experience and develop in that new role
• Fail to be properly rewarded for this development i.e. still paid less than peers doing the same/similar role
• Join another company to achieve that reward and go back to the top of this cycle.

I've seen the same happen with people I've hired who have then developed, where there are too many HR constraints preventing them for being paid market rates, so they have no option but to leave.

 

[OspreyO]

I'm not disagreeing either. I'm just saying its one is more common than the other. I've had both happen to me.

 

[NickK]

You can have a temporary bump in salary for an acting role, or a probationary period with an agreed bump if it all works out.
But too often you see people taking on these roles and not being rewarded for it. Forums are full of it. See it a lot myself.
You see on this forum, so many people have to leave to get an offer of a promotion or salary increase. At which point they've already made the decision to leave.

I think thats more vastly common than promises being honoured down the line.

No risk no reward maybe.

You value you provide is from day one. The business may only be able to extract that value 3 months on. Not the employee’s problem.

 

[OspreyO]

You value you provide is from day one. The business may only be able to extract that value 3 months on. Not the employee’s problem.

I think people are coming around the the idea that being a number on a balance sheet works both ways.

Really that all starts from knowing what the salary is in the first place.

 

[darkblade]

Until recently my career journey has generally been:

• Join company on an OK baseline salary
• Get promoted on a crap salary i.e. insufficient increment over old job
• Gain experience and develop in that new role
• Fail to be properly rewarded for this development i.e. still paid less than peers doing the same/similar role
• Join another company to achieve that reward and go back to the top of this cycle.

I've seen the same happen with people I've hired who have then developed, where there are too many HR constraints preventing them for being paid market rates, so they have no option but to leave.

I've seen this many times as well as going through this myself.
Gaining the experience will pay off eventually, even if it is not with the same company.