I assume? I work for the NHS mate.
Save the NHS!
- Thread starter scorza
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I assume? I work for the NHS mate.
Anecdotal.
Anecdotes.
Soldato
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We assume, because that's all we have. Staff and facilities.
Are you arguing against this strike on the basis that you would completely change the staff and facilities in some magical puff of smoke that starts with this new contract for junior doctors and ends in immortality for the populous.
Gubbins.
Regurgitated tripe in response after response.
Changing working hours for junior doctors doesn't make the NHS a truly 24/7 no matter what the health minister thinks.
Soldato
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Well given that the majority of junior doctors already routinely work extra hours above the hours of their rota (unpaid) and many hospitals have unfilled posts in the rota, and the proposed contract aims to shift more into antisocial/weekend days, do you really think the current staffing levels during the week are optimal?
The current system of safeguards for junior doctors claiming wages for hours worked are restrictive enough already, but there is at least that process in place. Why is there the need to replace the system with a toothless 'guardian' who need not act on flagrant understaffing and consequent risk to patients? Why is this watering down of safeguards being proposed?
Soldato
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Explore current mental health provisioning, and tell me how it is being adequately treated without the need for more staff?
Patterns are certainly not optimal, and changing patterns won't help a button.
So how does timetabling help with mental health provisioning?
What do you think is inherently good within the new junior doctor contract Dolph?
The 50% supplement that most junior doctors receives doesn't seem to bad remuneration for out of hours, isn't it this 'banding' for out of hours pay that these changes are aimed at reducing, but with an increase to basic salary to off set it?
Well ignoring safety concerns to patients and focusing purely on salary:
Most don't get 50% (1A banding)
Majority are 20 - 40%. Some none.
Quick maths
22k Base for starting junior doctor
+ 40% = 30.8k
Proposed banding cut and 11%rise = 24.4k
Overnight 6k drop in your salary oh and no one supporting you if you're forced to work ridiculous hours. 1 mistake in your judgement whilst your exhausted means GMC hearing and potential loss of licence. Btw you have to work Saturday and late evenings as "normal hours".
EDIT this is for 1st year junior. So if you're a few years along you'll be having even larger drops in salary.
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Soldato
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Are you referring to the junior doctors? There is a difference between not wanting you pay to be slashed and demanding a pay rise.
The proposed new contract now has an 11% in basic pay to offset the removal of banding (additional % of basic pay to pay for extra hours above 40 per week and antisocial hours) so that pay stays the same. But this 11% pay-rise is only going to stay in place for 3 years, and then I suspect will revert back.
Pay progression from the low starting salary of juniors is also being changed, without stating by how much compared to the current system, most probably to reduce the junior doctor wage bill.
Junior doctors, along with other NHS staff, have seen pay freezes year-on-year. They aren't clamouring for pay rises. They're concerned by the prospect of excessive hours, the removal of safeguards, pay cuts and increased antisocial hours.
In addition from what has also been posted, that statement implies a doctor is not a essential part of patient care. Last time I looked, it was very much so.
We also need to remember we spend 2% less per GDP compared to France and Germany. Perhaps we should accept that we need to fund the NHS properly?
Dolph just likes to be a contrarian when it comes to discussing the NHS. I don't think I've ever seen him talk sense in this thread. Don't waste your breath trying to debate with him ; those of us who work in the NHS know the truth, and it's not even remotely in the same universe as Dolph's own beliefs.
Soldato
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50% is far less common - I had a 1a (basic + 50%) working in A&E, working 2 in every 3 weekends and lots of nights and evening shifts. Great work, horrible hours. Perhaps Jeremy Hunt will improve A&E doctor training recruitment by making the rota just as awful for all specialties! At least in A&E you leave when your shift is supposed to finish!
Shame on all the junior doctors putting patients at risk. Absolutely appalling attitude. They earn enough money a drink need to understand that the health service is not a Monday to job. The fact you're more likely to die in hospital at a weekend says it all.
The Sun newspaper works doing its job to subvert the minds of the insipid
As someone who knows a few former JD's they aren't paid nearly enough imo. 60+hrs a week some of them and then study on top.
Man of Honour
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Working in this side of the NHS it doesn't happen and you have to be repeatedly crap to get that far.
A common phone call is like one I had today from a Clinician saying he has got an appraisal and needs to know how many claims he's had against him over the last year.
It doesn't but it hasn't stopped it being banded around as fact.