Saving Sessions / Demand reduction thread
- Thread starter Mercenary Keyboard Warrior
- Start date
Yes and no
The problem is many will be load shifting out of potentially better times for the grid to be loaded into that 3 hour window.
Eg I didnt put my dishwasher on over night a couple of times and ran it during that three hour window. So I shifted irrelevant (to the savings session) load into that window and used my normal basically zero amount during the savings session window, because I have solar and batteries I can esaily make sure i dont use any in a savings session window.
It was flawed for me for a few reasons -
This load shifting mentioned
People who are very low usage in the savings session window already (people like me) would not be rewarded yet we are permanently load switching out of that time, it would be worse were we not
People who switch off lots before they go out get penalised as their in day window will have lower usage than normal and they get penalised for that even if lowering their usage in the saving session window
Soldato
First one I did by the book and I sat by torchlight turning everything off for an hour. 0.0kw used during the session.
Got a whole 56p for that waste of time.
It's no surprise, when they start challenging people to be in the top % of savers that people start gaming it.
Got a whole 56p for that waste of time.
It's no surprise, when they start challenging people to be in the top % of savers that people start gaming it.
To be honest as I filled out the survey on our experience I did think 'am I gaming the system or this system gaming me?'
The latest Hugo email was very clear on tactics to rinse the power in the -4 to -1 sitchy... And people were still paying £ for that power. So perhaps there is no gaming at all and the system did what it was meant to?
The latest Hugo email was very clear on tactics to rinse the power in the -4 to -1 sitchy... And people were still paying £ for that power. So perhaps there is no gaming at all and the system did what it was meant to?
Soldato
On the surveys I added feedback that the current formulas were open to abuse and needed to be adjusted to prevent it, though I'm not sure how makes sense.
I also mentioned that people who used very little normally were unable to benefit from the system, as it also incentivizes load shifting the other way around. i.e. routinely using more when the saving sessions are more likely to happen.
I also mentioned that people who used very little normally were unable to benefit from the system, as it also incentivizes load shifting the other way around. i.e. routinely using more when the saving sessions are more likely to happen.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2010
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I didn’t win. 
Man of Honour
Nor me
Soldato
I didn't win. Do want t-shirt (we can still win those!) 
Associate
Didn't win anything .....received the second £25 voucher for being in the CSE Research turn down test/survey.
.....received the second £25 voucher for being in the CSE Research turn down test/survey.
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Soldato
As soon as the scheme was announced a bunch of us on here identified these same things immediately. What boffins came up with the scheme in the first place, it clearly would be open to these issues anyone with half a brain could see it.
No wonder country is in a mess when people in charge come up with such dumb ideas.
Its not that they came up with it for this purpose, its the formula used already for the generation side already and has been for some time.
What they did was assume it was fine for the consumer side.
And in reality its not that terrible, sure it could be better but most will have some issue or opportunity its very hard to cover all the bases of opportunity to game it.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2010
- Posts
- 2,576
To the MOON
Soldato
I'm ready 
I think we think we won the 2d chess but they still won the 4d chess. I mean the scheme specifically incentivised using as much power as possible in the hours before, and then as little as possible in the hour itself. It'd take a lot of incompetence at every level of the command chain across several companies to not realise that.
Octopus are working on a white paper (or may have released it by now) regarding the saving sessions. The figures mentioned are £400 million paid to the coal stations to stay on standby vs £100 million to customers via saving sessions for the same affect via reduced demand.
Found it:
Found it:
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Octopus are working on a white paper (or may have released it by now) regarding the saving sessions. The figures mentioned are £400 million paid to the coal stations to stay on standby vs £100 million to customers via saving sessions for the same affect via reduced demand.
Found it:
Yes its bloody daft, there is loads of capacity available via savings sessions.
Hell they could even specifically gets us with batteries to dump when needed if they just paid fairly!
My suspicion is the grid don't want to see that coal go yet.
Some data for 23/24 is starting to become available
They are running again.
www.nationalgrideso.com
Edit, some will be very sad
- Removed the domestic in-day baseline adjustment to mitigate peverse incetives
They are running again.
Demand Flexibility Service (DFS) | National Energy System Operator
The Demand Flexibility Service (DFS) was introduced in winter (22/23) to access additional flexibility typically over winter peak days when national demand is at its highest.
www.nationalgrideso.com
Edit, some will be very sad
- Removed the domestic in-day baseline adjustment to mitigate peverse incetives
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Soldato
Hopefully it works the same way as last year, now I've got batteries.