Schumacher to Mercedes GP?

Fireblade2K4 said:
A guy who is 41, 7 time World Champion wouldn't return to a sport which he dominated for pretty much a decade without knowing he can deliver, and I really think he can, and if he does and it's Michael of old then the likes of Lewis, Vettel and Button and so on need to raise their game, because this year nobody was on it all the way through, there were mistakes and things that happened due to pressure, car issues and such that MS has suffered in the past but dealt with in a way where his performance was supreme, he dealt with it.
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The problem that I have with MS returning is that he has been out of the sport for 3 years. I remember when Prost took 1 year out in 1992, Senna commented that this was a VERY brave thing to do and that he would never do something like that as he would probably lose some speed. When Prost did return, I always felt that he wasn't the Prost of old and seemed to have lost some of his race pace (in qualifying he was decent, but during the race, D.Hill seemed to have the edge). Prost did quit F1, later that year.

As far as I'm concerned, the Jury's out on whether or not MS can perform in the same way he used to.

With regards to the young guns having to raise their game to compete against MS: MS was beaten in 2005 and 2006. He quit at exactly the right time, I think, where Alonso had now taken over his mantle. I can't help but feel that in equal cars, in 2010, MS would finish behind Alonso and Hamilton. In 2005/6, MS was past his peak and in 2010, I can't see how he could've improved, to enable him to compete against Alonso or Hamilton.

I'll say this: MS is the most complete driver I have ever witnessed, by a big margin, but at 41 years of age, with his best years behind him, having had 3 years out of the sport, having already been beaten in his last 2 years in F1 (by Alonso) - in 2010, I can't see how he can compete with Alonso or Hamilton...unless he has the best car on the grid, by a big margin.

Fireblade2K4 said:
I could rant on about this for hours as it's my number one sport and I have a MASSIVE amount of passion for it, and not just MS returning, F1 in general, but I'll stop now and give you all a break lol.
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Please...rant away, this is a forum for motorsport fantatics. And normally during the closed season, only the hardcore F1 fans will be hanging around the F1 threads, so these threads will be thoroughly enjoyed by those who visit them.
 
sunama said:
Please...rant away, this is a forum for motorsport fantatics. And normally during the closed season, only the hardcore F1 fans will be hanging around the F1 threads, so these threads will be thoroughly enjoyed by those who visit them.
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Well seeing as that is the case I will rant away a bit more later on lol ... but first I need to get Christmas dinner over and done with, I simply can't reflect on this on an empty stomach, and I'm glad my rants will be appreciated :D

Stu
 
dannyjo22 said:
The hold up I'm sure was mercedes. Brawn didn't have the money until Mercedes commited, so they were offereing 3 million plus sponsorship deals.
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Hang on...I'm confused.

First off, you are all saying that BrawnGP offered him more money than McLaren. Now you are saying they only offered him £3M, which is actually less than that offered by McLaren.

:confused:
 
sunama said:
Hang on...I'm confused.

First off, you are all saying that BrawnGP offered him more money than McLaren. Now you are saying they only offered him £3M, which is actually less than that offered by McLaren.

:confused:
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They offered £3m BEFORE Mercedes got involved, once Mercedes took over they offered him more than he accepted from Mclaren - up to £12m apparently.
 
Fireblade2K4 said:
Hmmm think your a little off the mark here in a few respects. Mercades will be a big player yes, however I don't think it will "take years" to build up any sort of numbers to compete with Ferrari, McLaren or anyone for that matter.:D
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regardless they didn't have the strength in depth to fight on two front. Develope a car and work on the next years, which is why Brawn had to hang on in there.

It will take years to build the kind of strength to regularly battle a mclaren or ferrari. I doubt they could have gotten the better of Red bUll with the resources they have without the diffuser head start, which lets be honest would have been banned If it was any other team apart from a newbie team trying to survive.

You say mercedes will offer a wealth of tech input but this will only be from an engine point of view. Whenever an engine maker tries to play chassis they fall on their backsides compared to the long term runners. Toyota, BMW, Honda to name three.

The merc money is greatly needed but it will take time to get the people in place to build a team with the depth to continue to push the car forward all season long. Something they failed to do so spectacularly last year.

I fancy MS to get a win or three though, either that or quit.



sunama said:
Hang on...I'm confused.

First off, you are all saying that BrawnGP offered him more money than McLaren. Now you are saying they only offered him £3M, which is actually less than that offered by McLaren.

:confused:
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What Alex says, Brawn tried to stall until the merc deal was confirmed, then they offered more money than mclaren but Jenson went.
 
sunama said:
With regards to the young guns having to raise their game to compete against MS: MS was beaten in 2005 and 2006. He quit at exactly the right time, I think,
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i don't have the best memory but wasn't the 2005 car awful? then in 06 he had a crap car at the start but very nearly won the championship appart from a mechanical failiure?
 
Sone said:
i don't have the best memory but wasn't the 2005 car awful? then in 06 he had a crap car at the start but very nearly won the championship appart from a mechanical failiure?
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Indeed, Schumacher was unlucky in 2006. Three races out he was level in points with 7 wins to Alonso's 6. The penultimate race, Schumacher suffered an engine failure from the lead then in the last race he had a failure in qualifying so ended up 10th, had a puncture in the race and ended up finishing 4th, not enough.

2006 he was certainly in championship winning form.

If Brawn can give Schumacher a car that is approximately the best, then I expect him to a championship contender.
 
Sone said:
i don't have the best memory but wasn't the 2005 car awful? then in 06 he had a crap car at the start but very nearly won the championship appart from a mechanical failiure?
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In 2005, his car was bad. I think he only won a single race and that was because most other cars were not taking part. But do bear in mind that in years gone by, he probably would've got better results.

In 2006, his car wasnt as bad as you are suggesting. MS finished in 2nd place and Massa (who at the time wasnt half as good as he is now), finished in 3rd place. Don't be fooled by anyone who suggests the car was bad. Alonso beat MS by 13 points. Throughout the season, their cars were equally matched - in some races Ferrari were best, in some Renault were best. Renault did win the constructors title, but only by 5 points (it really was that close).

The difference between the MS in 2006 and the MS during his peak, is that at his peak, in a car which was slower than his rivals, he was able to beat them in a title fight. For others to beat him in the title race, they would need a car advantage. In 2006, he simply didnt have the ability to do what he had been able to do in the past.

My guess is that he retired as he knew, that he just didnt have the same abilities as he earlier on his career. He retired at exactly the right time where people would remember him for being a great racer and for rightfully owning virtually every F1 record in existence.
 
Alex UK said:
They offered £3m BEFORE Mercedes got involved, once Mercedes took over they offered him more than he accepted from Mclaren - up to £12m apparently.
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by this time Haug had already admitted that Merc had had discussions with MS (and even more of an insult to JB, with Heidfeld)

If I was JB, I would be pretty ****** at that kind of treatment

Merc blatantly wanted an all German line up - which meant getting rid of the Brit WDC) , whatever they said in the press

"actions speak louder than words"

dannyjo22 said:
regardless they didn't have the strength in depth to fight on two front. Develope a car and work on the next years, which is why Brawn had to hang on in there.

It will take years to build the kind of strength to regularly battle a mclaren or ferrari. I doubt they could have gotten the better of Red bUll with the resources they have without the diffuser head start, which lets be honest would have been banned If it was any other team apart from a newbie team trying to survive.

You say mercedes will offer a wealth of tech input but this will only be from an engine point of view. Whenever an engine maker tries to play chassis they fall on their backsides compared to the long term runners. Toyota, BMW, Honda to name three.

The merc money is greatly needed but it will take time to get the people in place to build a team with the depth to continue to push the car forward all season long. Something they failed to do so spectacularly last year.

I fancy MS to get a win or three though, either that or quit.

.
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You should read the F1 Racing article its very illuminating

In general I would agree with you about "taking years to regularly battle a McLaren /Ferrari" but this team has effectively been going a very long time, and it was the car / technical abilities of the design team which needed a long term strategic view. This is firstly what Ross has bought to the team and is heavily backed up by Merc arriving. This is why I personally think it will be a much shorter time scale.

Not only that but article mentioned above does indicate that Brawn team came up with lots of ideas for last year that they kept back until 2010 which they wouldnt even hint at (for understandable reasons lol)

I STRONGLY disagree that the double diffuser would have been banned if it had come from a n other team, after all it wasnt just Brawn who made a success of it - both Williams and Toyota had it and gradually slipped further and further back on the grid as others developed to me this shows that even though they didnt win like Brawn they still made the double diffuser a real success.

Im not knocking you but like most I bet you where knocking Brawn this time last season , saying they would never be an instant success. With majority of the team being the same but with a huge increase in technical backup and spending power and you think its likely to happen this time?
Im not expecting it to be as highly successful by any means - but I think you are wrong to write them off so easily
 
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sunama said:
But what if, you are the one who gets shown up? What if you struggle to even beat your team-mate?
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Then i shall claim that it was Ralf that wanted to come back all along and has been away from F1 to get a bit of touch-up plastic surgery so he can look just as good as his older brother ;).

In all seriousness though, i have a good feeling about the comeback, will just need to make sure i leave the colostomy bag in the garage :D
 
Really excited to see Schumacher back in F1. In a sport where milliseconds make a difference it's difficult to predict if he will be winning races but I hope he has the right car underneath him :) I don't think he ever lost his hunger, but there are certainly enough changes in competition, cars, qualifying etc to make this a fresh challenge for him.

sunama said:
In 2005, his car was bad. I think he only won a single race and that was because most other cars were not taking part. But do bear in mind that in years gone by, he probably would've got better results.

In 2006, his car wasnt as bad as you are suggesting. MS finished in 2nd place and Massa (who at the time wasnt half as good as he is now), finished in 3rd place. Don't be fooled by anyone who suggests the car was bad. Alonso beat MS by 13 points. Throughout the season, their cars were equally matched - in some races Ferrari were best, in some Renault were best. Renault did win the constructors title, but only by 5 points (it really was that close).
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I agree Schumacher was in a good car in 2006, and the Renault's performance was pretty much even with perhaps a slightly torquier engine. I don't think mentioning the 13 point gap does Schumacher justice as with two races to go he and Alonso were even on 116 points, but his retirement in Japan pretty much sealed his second place finish overall. He was making a great challenge until then.
 
Chojin said:
I agree Schumacher was in a good car in 2006, and the Renault's performance was pretty much even with perhaps a slightly torquier engine. I don't think mentioning the 13 point gap does Schumacher justice as with two races to go he and Alonso were even on 116 points, but his retirement in Japan pretty much sealed his second place finish overall. He was making a great challenge until then.
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The point I was making though, was that in prevous years, he wouldnt have needed a better car than the opposition to win the title. Even in a slightly inferior car, he would still be favourite to win the title. In 2006 (his final year), this wasnt the case. It was clear for all to see that he no longer possessed the same powers that he had during the glory days.

As far as I'm concerned, he retired at exactly the right time. A comeback could be very dangerous for his reputation and myth.
 
Im an F1 Fanatic, have been since i can remember, but i doubt Schumi is going to make a full return to F1, he may make it to a couple of races but i doubt hes got that certain something he once had..not many have made it back into F1 and done well after a period of not racing in F1...he may be best suited to DTM or the WTCC.

*equips the flame suit*
 
KnightStalker said:
Im an F1 Fanatic, have been since i can remember, but i doubt Schumi is going to make a full return to F1, he may make it to a couple of races but i doubt hes got that certain something he once had..not many have made it back into F1 and done well after a period of not racing in F1...he may be best suited to DTM or the WTCC.

*equips the flame suit*
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So why did he sign a 3 year deal?
 
Pics of Schumacher testing GP2 car - http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/12/schumacher-starts-gp2-test-pictures/

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Interesting that he's still running with his "Marlboro" helmet. Would have expected him to go back to something more like he used in the old days now that he's cut his ties with Ferrari.
 
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