Poll: Scottish Independence: For/Against?

[Vicar]

There is going to be some pain coming soon i believe. How much has yet to be determined. The current situation can go either way with the property market. We could have a property market and construction industry that lands softly and returns to a sensible situation, or it could all just crash.

Judging by the reckless promises by most political parties (There is General Election in a few weeks) with regards to Stamp Duty for First time buyers, and the resultant immediate effect on the property market, doesn't give me confidence that any slow down in the market will be properly managed.

However, the Property market has been predicted to implode every year since about 2000. Hasn't happened yet. There is a marked slowdown in construction industry currently, but it is a slowdown in the rate of growth of construction, so it is still growing, currently.

Considering the perilous fact that the construction industry accounts for roughly 20% of our GDP, the fact that the era of ridiculously low interest rates is over, and that personal debt is so high, makes me nervous.

So in short, the less competition from Independent, small, well educated, English speaking countries, the better for Ireland.

Nate

Yup I thought as much, so this doesnt really help an Independant Scotland as you point with out competition from across the Irish sea for either country, which is I said in earlier, Scotland would be in bad way for at least 20 years, trying to get on a even keel financially, trying to attract investment and keeping our post grad's in this country.

Nate, I will tell me father in law to stop blowing the euros on the horses/pub and put it in the bank. Not that he ever listens to me or understands me anyway The Glaswegian/ Kerry accents arent exactly compatibale english anyway

 

[Nate--IRL--]

Not that he ever listens to me or understands me anyway The Glaswegian/ Kerry accents aren't exactly compatible english anyway

Lol, to be honest I can more easily decipher a Glaswegian accent than a Kerry one

However, i feel i may have painted too bleak a picture, the Irish economy has many many other strengths. For example, Ireland is the largest exporter of computer software in the world. Anyway, a quick read of the Irish situation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland

Just so you don't misunderstand me, i don't believe that Scotland would take 20 years to reach an even keel. If given Independence, or even just complete devolved Taxation powers, it would give Scotland a massive boost to compete economically in Europe and Globally. Plus the North sea oil..... It would be, in my opinion, in Scotland's interest economically to go for Independence. It would not however be in Ireland's interest, Currently.

Nate

 

[Jokester]

according to a TV prog recently the net flow of money ( tax, revenue , costs etc ) is £450 a year ( per taxpayer ) to Scotland

That might have been were I got the £3billion deficit figure I posted earlier on. The interesting thing though is that the overall UK debt was approximately £30billion apparently in the same time frame. Which, head for head roughly corresponds to Scotland being on an even keel with the rest of the UKs contribution to the UK debt.

Jokester

 

[Vicar]

That might have been were I got the £3billion deficit figure I posted earlier on. The interesting thing though is that the overall UK debt was approximately £30billion apparently in the same time frame. Which, head for head roughly corresponds to Scotland being on an even keel with the rest of the UKs contribution to the UK debt.

Jokester

Would be in line with current population counts in either country, not including Wales or Northern Ireland.

Scotland Just over 5 Million people living there

England Just over 55 Million people living there.

 

[Biohazard]

Scotland is not propped up by the UK as Westminster and opponents would lead you to believe.

 

[Docaroo]

The Lib Dems said all along, they would support a coalition if SNP drop the referendum. SNP can't drop their pride enough to take that deal.

you just DON'T GET IT.... Look at the 2003 election results and compare them to now... the SNP's gain is nothing short of ground breaking. Quite an achievment.

And you have no idea about politics speaking abou "can't drop their pride" - that comment is moronic. The SNP can't just "drop" a policy because the Scottish people VOTED FOR THAT. Everyone who votes SNP voted for a referendum on independence, otherwise they would have just gone for Lib Dems....

SNP dropping that is not an option, and tbh Lib Dems really shouldn't expect them to. It doesn't matter, a minority government now is only the first step, I think the next election will be a bit of a shock to everyone, once people start seeing how much good the SNP and Alec Salmond can do for Scotland. He will make an excellent first minister, unlike that **** McConnell. He had no right to be our first minister, like the SNP says - Labour think they have the divine rights to rule Scotland, well not any more.

 

[Docaroo]

It's not a case of dropping their pride, their MSPs were voted for on the basis of a referendum for independence being one of their key objectives. Dropping it would be like selling their granny in an effort to grab power. To me that shows a lot more integrity than essentially giving two fingers to their voters just so they can gain a majority.

Jokester

lol that is exactly correct... very well said - the problem is that people don't understand that the SNP vote means people want the referendum. Either way Scotland should be given the opportunity to decide on independence - this is after all a democracy??

 

[Windle]

you just DON'T GET IT.... Look at the 2003 election results and compare them to now... the SNP's gain is nothing short of ground breaking. Quite an achievment.

And you have no idea about politics speaking abou "can't drop their pride" - that comment is moronic. The SNP can't just "drop" a policy because the Scottish people VOTED FOR THAT. Everyone who votes SNP voted for a referendum on independence, otherwise they would have just gone for Lib Dems....

SNP dropping that is not an option, and tbh Lib Dems really shouldn't expect them to. It doesn't matter, a minority government now is only the first step, I think the next election will be a bit of a shock to everyone, once people start seeing how much good the SNP and Alec Salmond can do for Scotland. He will make an excellent first minister, unlike that **** McConnell. He had no right to be our first minister, like the SNP says - Labour think they have the divine rights to rule Scotland, well not any more.

They got 1 seat more, sure they've gained but the fact is that they didn't get a huge majority therefore you can't say that "Scotlands made it's decision and that decision was SNP" when more than half of Scotland didn't vote SNP...

I know full well they can't drop the independence referendum, but your making huge assumptions on people voting for SNP because of independence. I know plenty of people who voted SNP but are against independence. Sack McConnell may have been an idiot, but that smug git Salmond won't be much better. Call me a moron but at least i can spell

As a minority government the SNP will struggle, and justify it how you want that will affect public opinion of them. They won't be able to get half the stuff they want to through and thus people will think that they wasted their vote as things aren't getting done. If the SNP were truly committed to scotland they should have dropped the independence referendum a long time ago, before the campaign and made preperations for this election by ensuring they could have setup a coalition government.

You have far too much of a chip on your shoulder for a proper debate.

 

[Jokester]

I can't see why the other parties are so scared of a referendum. A vote would represent the Scottish peoples opinions on a specific issue and wouldn't represent a "protest" vote for the SNP. If it resulted in a "no" it would likely put it to bed for another 20-30 years.

The issue of an independant Scotland isn't likely to go away until there's a significant regime change in London and with all the mainstream parties much the same that isn't likely to happen soon.

Jokester

 

[barf0r]

The majority of voters voted for pro-union parties.
I think that is the reason for not having a referendum.


EDIT: I mean to say that is the reason why we don't need one, rather than why there won't be one.

 

[Docaroo]

I know full well they can't drop the independence referendum, but your making huge assumptions on people voting for SNP because of independence. I know plenty of people who voted SNP but are against independence.

no offence, but the people you know who voted SNP and are against independence are, for want of a more accurate description - morons. This is the SNP's MAIN purpose!! Why the hell did they not vote Lib Dem? Their politicies are very similar, only without the independence ref... that is honestly retarded. A vote for the SNP = a vote for independence.

Sack McConnell may have been an idiot, but that smug git Salmond won't be much better. Call me a moron but at least i can spell

Salmond is most definately not a "smug git" and the times I've met him he's come across as a genuine and good guy and this is why I say I think he'll be great for Scotland.

As a minority government the SNP will struggle, and justify it how you want that will affect public opinion of them. They won't be able to get half the stuff they want to through and thus people will think that they wasted their vote as things aren't getting done.

This is not the fault of the SNP but rather the blindness of the other parties. If Scotland isn't for independence then why not form a coalition, have the referendum and find out that way?? To me, it comes across as the Lib Dems selling Scotland short and my opinion of them (I was a former voter) has crumbled.

If the SNP were truly committed to scotland they should have dropped the independence referendum a long time ago, before the campaign and made preperations for this election by ensuring they could have setup a coalition government.

Disasterous comment, the whole SNP party is based on Independence, if people didn't vote for independence - the party wouldn't exist. That comment is just silly... I honestly can't get my head round that.... it's like Labour saying "actually, screw the NHS - people didn't vote us in to do anything there anyway!!!"

 

[Docaroo]

The majority of voters voted for pro-union parties.
I think that is the reason for not having a referendum.


EDIT: I mean to say that is the reason why we don't need one, rather than why there won't be one.

Fair enough, but then let that be decided by referendum then??? Like I said before, the country is now 51% IN FAVOUR of independence and that is the reason why we DO need one?

 

[barf0r]

This is not the fault of the SNP but rather the blindness of the other parties. If Scotland isn't for independence then why not form a coalition, have the referendum and find out that way?? To me, it comes across as the Lib Dems selling Scotland short and my opinion of them (I was a former voter) has crumbled.

The SNP want an independence referendum as it was part of their manifesto. If they didn't have one they would be going back on what they promised their voters.
The Lib Dems are a pro-union party. If they then supported a referendum they would be going back on what they promised their voters.

 

[barf0r]

Fair enough, but then let that be decided by referendum then??? Like I said before, the country is now 51% IN FAVOUR of independence and that is the reason why we DO need one?

I've not seen that poll and I've no idea if its accurate or not.

But the point is simple: If people want an independent Scotland, then vote for the SNP. Most people didn't vote for the SNP. And for that reason I don't believe a referendum should be held.

 

[Jokester]

The Lib Dems are a pro-union party. If they then supported a referendum they would be going back on what they promised their voters.

A referendum works both ways, a pro-Union party should be debating the benefits of remaining in the UK and give the choice to the people. As it is at the moment the only party that is constructively debating this issue at the moment is the SNP. The other parties are maintaining the pro-union propaganda that Scotland is a drain on the UK and doesn't have the ability to run our own country without it ending up an economic disaster. To me that isn't showing us the benefits of being in the UK because it doesn't stand upto closer scrutiny.

Ultimately it's upto the people living in Scotland to make the decision as to whether to go independent or remain part of the Union. As I said before a "no" vote would be a powerful message to the Scottish people and would kill the issue for a few more decades like it did the last time (even though it was a "yes" vote last time).

Jokester

 

[Vicar]

hit quote button by mistake their... oops

And if we got a Independant state, maybe we get better result in the eurovision song contest.... We could vote for Ireland, vice versa, the have little block vote club off our own

 

[Jokester]

An if we got a Independant state, maybe we get better result in the eurovision song contest.... We could vote for Ireland, vice versa, the have little block vote club off our own

We could put the MacDonald Brothers into Eurovision, nobody else would stand a change .

Jokester

 

[barf0r]

A referendum works both ways, a pro-Union party should be debating the benefits of remaining in the UK and give the choice to the people. As it is at the moment the only party that is constructively debating this issue at the moment is the SNP. The other parties are maintaining the pro-union propaganda that Scotland is a drain on the UK and doesn't have the ability to run our own country without it ending up an economic disaster. To me that isn't showing us the benefits of being in the UK because it doesn't stand upto closer scrutiny.

Ultimately it's upto the people living in Scotland to make the decision as to whether to go independent or remain part of the Union. As I said before a "no" vote would be a powerful message to the Scottish people and would kill the issue for a few more decades like it did the last time (even though it was a "yes" vote last time).

Jokester

I take your point. But still don't see enough justification for a referendum.

As you say, have a referendum so it can show whether or not independence is supported, and we'll know for sure. I imagine this would come a large financial cost. It would also put the running of the country on hold for a long time.
I don't know what percentage of the overall vote the SNP got, but I don't think it would be large enough to justify a referendum. The time and money could be much better spent IMO.

If the SNP had a majority of the seats then of course I would have no problem with a referendum taking place, I just think that the results from the election don't back up the case enough.

 

[Rotty]

the "referendum" debate always assumes just Scots voting but surely the English should have a say too, maybe we should vote for independence


one thing I was wondering, the differnces re things sush as student fees, old folks home costs etc where Scottish folks get a better deal, where does the extra money come from ?

 

[barf0r]

The Scottish parliment gets money from westminster. They spend it how they like (for certain issues).