Soldato
Vibez said:
Comments and attitudes like this are another great reason for voting yes....
are you being serious? jesus.
Poll: Scottish Independence: For/Against?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Comments and attitudes like this are another great reason for voting yes....
are you being serious? jesus.
Soldato
this article was posted earlier in the thread and well, it puts into words my exact thoughts on independence i.e. giving Scotland the kick up the backside it needs. In the UK we are nothing, as a nation we can be truly great.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/evandavis/2007/04/the_scottish_gamble_1.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/evandavis/2007/04/the_scottish_gamble_1.html
Soldato
Docaroo said:
Even the most ardent of SNP supporters cannot possibly claim that the 'Scottish people' have chosen the SNP. They have obtained 47/129 possible seats and even with the 2 Green MSP's, that does not create a majority. Thus if there was a vote by our elected Members' tomorrow, a referendum on independence would not happen.
You say "foolish" Liberal Democrats, but a notable percentage of the population have voted for them and the other two main party's. So it's not by any means a formality.
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Soldato
As an aside, I think one of Scotland's main current problems is the rate at which our graduate's leave!! They go to work in America/Canada/etc (infact I myself am planning to work in Australia for a few years), and this is due to something the article above speaks about - there is nothing for graduates in this country. No reason to stay, no great job oppotunities and no career.
As an independent nation we can change this, attract large companies to base in Scotland - there are a lot of things we can do to better ourselves economically, right now we are handicapped by the "great" union.
As an independent nation we can change this, attract large companies to base in Scotland - there are a lot of things we can do to better ourselves economically, right now we are handicapped by the "great" union.
Soldato
iBankAllDay said:
But that's what I'm saying, if there was a vote then there SHOULD be a referendum, the way that Scotland has voted this election clearly shows that that is what we want?? By numbers of votes the SNP has won aswell...
Soldato
Docaroo said:
I'd agree with you on the point that many graduates do not stay in Scotland (a large percentage of them do not come from Scotland for a start, so it's no shock). It at the local level that this is an issue. It's an extreme blight on Dundee's population; year on year graduates come and go. Sadly I'm one of them. Although I'll still be living here, I will not be working here. Most graduates I know are going elsewhere in Scotland, initially at least. Therefore I don't feel that this is an issue that independence will solve, there are the mechanisms in place at a local and devolved level to deal with this matter.
Soldato
Docaroo said:
There will be a bill passed through parliament by the SNP, no doubt. That will fail on the first hurdle. It's all part of creating publicity for the 'cause'. Hopefully after their term the current SNP supporters will see that independence is not a quick fix, it won't happen over night (if at all), and it won't be easy. And to further answer your earlier point I think it will actually perpetuate graduates' leaving the country. I know I would.
Soldato
iBankAllDay said:
hmm that's interesting, but I think I disagree, based on my experience (I haven't reseached it however).
I think a lot of graduates simply leave Scotland completely because of there being no opportunities, not enough large corporations. Our of all my Scottish friends at uni, and Scottish people graduating in my class, I am the only one who is staying in Scotland next year, and even then I plan to move to Australia in a few years....Obviously oil has brought a lot of large companies to Aberdeen but outside of that there isn't a whole lot... I think Independence can solve this problem at least to an extent, if only because the UK government is doing **** all about it because it's not a UK problem. REad the article i posted above, it touches on it!
Soldato
Morlan said:Well Scotland is a small country like Ireland, and Ireland is in the top 3 richest countries in the world (I think it's second in Europe). Why can't Scotland follow in Ireland's footsteps?
Nobody's really put forward a good argument other than:
a. the Euro
b. because we'd miss our English friends
c. because Brussels would take over.
I think Scotland could make it on its own.
I would Vote No for Scottish Independence (had I the ability) we wouldn't want Scotland competing with us Economically. We are already going to face stiff competition for new investments from the North of Ireland, if the plans for an All Island Low Corporate Tax rate are actually introduced.
Nate
Associate
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A few points.
Braveheart used much creative license and was not historically accurate!
The move of voters towards the SNP was just as much about Iraq and a dislike for ol' Tony as it was about independence.
Scotland is heavily subsidised by the rest of the UK. I've read many accounts of this over the years. I think this article explains the situation effectively.
The EU 'may' not want to subsidise an independent Scotland.
The general quality of life may benefit from independence, but it may not... Much evidence points to the latter.
A referendum is a good idea regardless.
Apart form the odd exception, is Scotland really different to the rest of the UK? I think not...
Much of the government is Scottish, including the next Prime Minister.
Despite having not been a superpower for probably over a century, the UK is still highly influential economically, politically and militaristically.
GDP per capita is != overall wealth of a state. Ireland is not the third richest country in the world. Haha...
Braveheart used much creative license and was not historically accurate!
The move of voters towards the SNP was just as much about Iraq and a dislike for ol' Tony as it was about independence.
Scotland is heavily subsidised by the rest of the UK. I've read many accounts of this over the years. I think this article explains the situation effectively.
The EU 'may' not want to subsidise an independent Scotland.
The general quality of life may benefit from independence, but it may not... Much evidence points to the latter.
A referendum is a good idea regardless.
Apart form the odd exception, is Scotland really different to the rest of the UK? I think not...
Much of the government is Scottish, including the next Prime Minister.
Despite having not been a superpower for probably over a century, the UK is still highly influential economically, politically and militaristically.
GDP per capita is != overall wealth of a state. Ireland is not the third richest country in the world. Haha...
Don
Wang Computer said:
Yes but GDP per capita offers a measure of standard of living, which from an individuals point of view is of more interest than the overal wealth of a nation.
Jokester
Associate
Nate--IRL-- said:
Do you think the Irish Wealth bubble will burst anytime soon Nate? Having my wifes family over there in Kerry, its seen a remarkable rise in fortunes in the last decade, my father in law and brother in law are builders and have made a fortune in the House building business. My friend from Glasgow is working as an archietect over thee is telling me there is a 1/4 million surplus housing stock in a country with less than a population than us, yet they keep building.
Regards
Vic
Docaroo said:
I'd disagree with that. The fact that the SNP only scraped 1 more seat than labour shows that there's a large amount of people out there who don't want the SNP in power, and don't support independence.
The Lib Dems said all along, they would support a coalition if SNP drop the referendum. SNP can't drop their pride enough to take that deal. End result? It'll be a minority SNP government which won't be able to do enough, lose the support of the people and "get bummed" next election.
Don
Windle said:
It's not a case of dropping their pride, their MSPs were voted for on the basis of a referendum for independence being one of their key objectives. Dropping it would be like selling their granny in an effort to grab power. To me that shows a lot more integrity than essentially giving two fingers to their voters just so they can gain a majority.
Jokester
Soldato
Vegetarian said:
I'm very very interested in what school taught you english were bad.
My history lessons started in the mid 19th centuary with the industrialisation crop rotation and the beginning of the UK becoming a world powerhouse. Which period did they teach you at school. Something that obviously wasn't part of the Scottish Education Authorities cirriculum.
Soldato
Vicar said:
There is going to be some pain coming soon i believe. How much has yet to be determined. The current situation can go either way with the property market. We could have a property market and construction industry that lands softly and returns to a sensible situation, or it could all just crash.
Judging by the reckless promises by most political parties (There is General Election in a few weeks) with regards to Stamp Duty for First time buyers, and the resultant immediate effect on the property market, doesn't give me confidence that any slow down in the market will be properly managed.
However, the Property market has been predicted to implode every year since about 2000. Hasn't happened yet. There is a marked slowdown in construction industry currently, but it is a slowdown in the rate of growth of construction, so it is still growing, currently.
Considering the perilous fact that the construction industry accounts for roughly 20% of our GDP, the fact that the era of ridiculously low interest rates is over, and that personal debt is so high, makes me nervous.
So in short, the less competition from Independent, small, well educated, English speaking countries, the better for Ireland.
Nate