Scrypt mining gold rush finally ends

[JamesM]

The component parts will have a MTBF yes.

At the end of the day, argue all you want. If I have a choice between a Cryto ragged GPU and one that was used for regular gaming I know which one I would choose.

If you want to sell me your crypto GPU then it better well be bloody cheap.

Saying temps is the only thing that matters and all other factors are irrelevant to the value of a card is pure balls.

I'm sure this makes crypto GPU miners sleep better at night. But consider this - Your supposed heat "temp swings" is exactly what the design brief of a GPU is built around and EXACTLY what the typical usage scenario entails, NOT static constant temperatures.

So your saying that a GPU which hits hotter temps for periods of time (they don't have to be short, a gamer could play a game for a number of hours) is better than a card which is at a lower temp all of the time? If temps aren't one of the major issues for card failure, why do most aftermarket companies produce cards with better cooling solutions?

Think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that.

If the reference cooler burns out then it can just be replaced with an aftermarket one? Also since we are on the topic on 290, bare in mind that AMD themselves designed the card to run at what, 95 degrees was it.

 

[Kaapstad]

Indeed, but the stock cooler breaking and having to be replaced <> bin time for the card.

For gaming does anyone want to buy a card with a dodgy cooler.

 

[Diddums]

This is all a bit skewed tbh. People have been ragging the nuts off kit for years, it's nothing new. Opinions here are tainted by alterior motives, whether it be envy, jealousy, bitterness, or the old chestnut that this is all a big scam. Of course the bookies' favourite is always "I want cheaper hardware" but it's not that simple. Many have lost out with this mining lark. Whether it's losing out on profit, paying more for a gpu that you've saved up for or having to wait because they're not in stock all creates a negative attitude towards the scene.

Of course profits were made, killer machines were built and hardware was bought by the pallet load, in some cases hardware which others could only dream about.

Of course the negative stigma attached to mining is still there but folks can't complain because from a miner's pov it's all dandy, with profit too.

So now mining's in a recession, and all those who paid more or had to wait longer for a gpu they wanted now have something to direct their frustration at.

Wear and tear on cards.

Well for a start I've mined on a GTX770, 2x 290, 7950, and most recently 2x 750ti. No issues at all. My cards are treated well, never over certain temps, never over clocked or over volted (a bit on the vram on the amd cards, temps permitting) and they've never skipped a beat.

As mentioned above, these cards aren't run in a toasty case, they're up on risers in the open getting loads of my fresh air, and because of that they're also in plain sight which means that I spot dust and clean it off much sooner than I would have had they been in a closed case.

Many miners see these cards as profit making machines and treat them accordingly, ie. look after them.

And going back to the bitterness thing, when last did you hear someone complain about a card being used for folding? I've never encountered that but then again I gained nothing from folding so the jealousy / bitterness part of that argument is throw straight in the bin.

 

[JamesM]

+1

finally someone with some sense.

Note that out of all the cards in my sig only a single one has been faulty, and that was a 290 with the black screen bug. They have all been mining for months, since November I believe.

For gaming does anyone want to buy a card with a dodgy cooler.

No but you can replace them? OcUK stock a rather nice selection of them

 

[ubersonic]

Your cards have been used FAR more in that period of time than any regular user would have used theirs. Statistically you are closer to failure and your cards, rightly so - are worth less.

Running a card full load 24/7 but well within it's optimum temperature range actually has less impact on it's lifespan than gaming does ("normal" use causes repeated heating and cooling of the board/silicone), think of it as a high mileage motorway cruiser versus a low mileage car that's been thrashed by a boy racer.

As an example I have had two reference R290's mining since launch, they sit in a rig in an air conditioned room, they have never seen 80 degrees let alone the 95 that AMD reckon they are fine to run at. When/if I come to sell them I will be listing his as a plus not a minus as these cards will be in better shape than those used for gaming.

 

[Kaapstad]

+1


No but you can replace them? OcUK stock a rather nice selection of them

Or I could buy a card that has just been used for gaming and save myself the trouble and expense.

 

[ubersonic]

Does anyone see the comedy that it's Fudzilla coming out with this FUD?

That bit about RMA's is the funniest bit, like how would the manufacturer even know anyway? they may as well try saying they won't replace any cards that have ever been used by a black man, there's no way of finding out.

 

[DanF]

Most gaming cards run by people on here have usually been OCed to the max which involves running at way higher volts than normal then clocked to the point just before it shows up artifacts and crashes the system. You really want to buy one of them over a undervolted card that's been looked after under a constant load?

 

[JamesM]

Or I could buy a card that has just been used for gaming and save myself the trouble and expense.

I was talking about the person selling the card fitting a custom cooler, not the person buying it.

Afterall everyone knows the reference coolers on the 290 are pretty naff anyway

 

[Sin_Chase]

So now mining's in a recession, and all those who paid more or had to wait longer for a gpu they wanted now have something to direct their frustration at.

I have absolutely no bias or preference either way. I'll never buy a second hand card.

That sentiment you feel swings both ways though. Miners who now have a huge stock of potentially useless hardware want to sing the praises of 'Looked After' 24/7 use hardware being better than those used in regular usage scenarios.

Take from that what you will.

 

[iB CoMpL3XiTy]

It's not black or white, some miners will overclock and overvolt their cards and some will undervolt/underclock....
The same can be said about gamers...

You can't make a blanket statement like all miner's cards are looked after better...or all gamers cards are ragged to the moon and back, my HD7950's are watercooled and run at stock 99% of the time for example.

Maybe having the cards run at a constant temp is better than the fluctuating temps of a gamers card but mining cards see a huge amount of usage in a very short time frame.

Say the average gamer (who works and has a life) games for 2 hours every day

And lets take a mining card that's been mining for 3 months

In the 3 months the gaming card would see 180 hours use

In the 3 months the mining card would see 2160 hours use

Just an example, obviously some people will game for more or less hours....

 

[Buckster]

OCUK I see advertise the hash rate for each card ...

so a lot of these cards are being advertised for gaming and mining

 

[RetrogamerX]

I've seen a lot more mining GPU's on the MM. I wont buy them.

 

[JamesM]

I have absolutely no bias or preference either way. I'll never buy a second hand card.

That sentiment you feel swings both ways though. Miners who now have a huge stock of potentially useless hardware want to sing the praises of 'Looked After' 24/7 use hardware being better than those used in regular usage scenarios.

Take from that what you will.

Not all of us are selling

 

[JamesM]

It's not black or white, some miners will overclock and overvolt their cards and some will undervolt/underclock....
The same can be said about gamers...

You can't make a blanket statement like all miner's cards are looked after better...or all gamers cards are ragged to the moon and back, my HD7950's are watercooled and run at stock 99% of the time for example.

Maybe having the cards run at a constant temp is better than the fluctuating temps of a gamers card but mining cards see a huge amount of usage in a very short time frame.

Say the average gamer (who works and has a life) games for 2 hours every day

And lets take a mining card that's been mining for 3 months

In the 3 months the gaming card would see 180 hours use

In the 3 months the mining card would see 2160 hours use

Just an example, obviously some people will game for more or less hours....

But the 180 hours of use would be up and down, with high temps and low temps. The 2160 hours would be at a constant temp and, more often than not lower voltages (99% of miners lower their voltages because at the end of the day power costs eat into the profit)

This is the problem. Some people are saying that the hours used is what causes a card to degrade. Others are stating that it's the constant power cycle and heat cycle that causes cards to degrade so at the end of the day, they even each other out.

 

[JamesM]

I've seen a lot more mining GPU's on the MM. I wont buy them.

Chances are people are advertising cards that have been mining and won't mention it.

I'd be very surprised if any 2nd hand AMD card hasn't been used for mining for at least a while, whether it was their main card or not.

Free money was a bit of an eye opener to everyone.

 

[iB CoMpL3XiTy]

But the 180 hours of use would be up and down, with high temps and low temps. The 2160 hours would be at a constant temp and, more often than not lower voltages (99% of miners lower their voltages because at the end of the day power costs eat into the profit)

This is the problem. Some people are saying that the hours used is what causes a card to degrade. Others are stating that it's the constant power cycle and heat cycle that causes cards to degrade so at the end of the day, they even each other out.

No, You can't say they even each other out with any degree of certainty (and neither can I)

We don't know how much damage fluctuating temps cause to a graphics card.

You also don't know that 99% of miners undervolt their cards, not all miners are savvy and not all miners pay for their electricity...

Like I said you can't make any blanket statements.

 

[tribz]

That doesn't stop the vendors refusing returns though.

How would they know what its been used for?

 

[melmac]

Something which I'd already pointed out. This was bound to happen!

You use an article that says Nvidia and AMD assume their cards are only going to be used 5 hours a day as validation for what you said? With a line like that I would find hard to believe in that article.

That doesn't stop the vendors refusing returns though.

First I have heard of this. What vendors are refusing returns?

If the cards aren't designed to run GPGPU (which was a major selling point) for long periods then it's bad design, it's not the first time AMD have clocked their CPU/GPU's way too aggressively though. Intel and NVidia both tend to clock their parts much more conservatively compared to AMD presumably for long term reliability reasons.

LOL what? The card doesn't care what it's doing. You think it's magically going to fail because it's used for compute stuff rather than gaming? AS for been clocked aggressively, what are you smoking? there is and there has been loads of headroom for overclocking in the last few generations of cards from both AMD and NVidia.

 

[melmac]

Those coolers were never designed to run 24/7 @95% for months on end.

Even the most dedicated AMD user can not game for that long and endure that much noise.

Show me proof that the coolers were never designed to run months on end.

Just because the fan is loud doesn't mean it's more likely to fail than a quiet one.

I don't understand why the noise has anything to do with this argument?