Sebastian Vettel

godinman said:
Saying that, Hamilton was a moany little bugger this year. 'I have no grip...I have zero grip guys' - 'I have NO downforce' - 'These tyres have no grip' etc etc etc. Fine, if you have a problem, tell your team, but at the end of the day you just have to get on with it.
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We only hear a minor snippet of all the radio transmissions that go on throughout a race and out of those transmissions we do hear, a lot of them seem to be Hamilton ones, so you are bound to hear moans and groans about car performance etc.

Out of all the drivers I would say that when grip is low Hamilton is one of the best drivers in F1. That doesn't mean he isn't entitled to ask the team if there is any way performance could be improved... especially when you consider the downforce advantage the Red Bull had at every race.

As for Vettel. The fastest man/car won the championship this year. I like Vettel but Red Bull's car advantage was far greater than their eventual points difference showed. Hamilton and Alonso shouldn't have been anywhere near them.
 
I have never really warmed to Vettel. I am pleased we have a new World Champion but what he did at Spa against Button was stupid and my respect for him will never be that high.
 
deko said:
...I just think that the car was flattering him. Put Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen, one of the really quick guys into the RB and I think they would comfortably outpace Vettel.
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I'd agree with this. Maybe not comfortably, but I don't rate him as high as those mentioned (when they are driving well). I mean Webber almost beat him and I'd only rate Webber as a midfield talent.
 
M0T said:
Put it this way if Alonso had won (by more than 7 points), or Hamilton had won would people be questioning their abilities in the same way that people are questioning Vettel this year and Button last year?
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You're right, if Alonso had won (by more than seven points), which he would have done but for a daft call from the pit wall no one would be questioning his talent. The 2nd half of Alonso's season was immense, in a car that certainly wasn't constantly the fastest.

Button's a top 6 driver lifted to the championship by a great car, Vettel the same. Alonso and Hamilton do have something extra. Looking further back, Hill and Villeneuve were similar to Button and Vettel (good but not great), whereas Schumacher and Häkkinen were a bit special. Räikkönen sits in the middle, not quite a MSC, HAK, ALO or HAM but better than Vettel, Button, Hill or Villeneuve.

Just my take on it.
 
hennreh said:
Vettel is incredible. He did some things that were questionable earlier in the season - I put that down to his age.

Its nice to see someone with a great personality in the sport - We don't want another Kimi :/
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Neither do I.

I want the one and only Kimi back where he belongs. Not driving a supped up hatch back in the mud.
 
Duke said:
Sums it up for me.

He won't always have the quickest car on the grid each season, so will need to learn to overtake at some point.
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Spot on
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Quickest driver over the year in general. Deserved the WDC even as an Alonso fan.

He seems to be a funny and down to earth person off the track too.
 
Bennah said:
How many fastest laps did Vettel take this year?

I remember Raikkonen taking quite a few in 2008 even though supporting Massa for the title battle.
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Only for something like the last 3 races though? Was right in it up until Spa with the FIA bs and his own **** up.
 
SoliD said:
Only for something like the last 3 races though? Was right in it up until Spa with the FIA bs and his own **** up.
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Nope

Kimi took 10 Fastest laps in the 2008 season !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Formula_One_season

Thats got to be some sort of record for having that many fastest laps and not winning or even coming 2nd.

*edit* yes it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_driver_records#Fastest_laps

The only person to have equalled 10 Fastest Laps in an F1 season of 18 races was Schumacher in 2004 when He won.

Close behind is Mika Häkkinen in 2000 with 9, but even then he came 2nd that year.

So yep, he holds the records for the most number of Fastest Laps in a season and not to have won it.
 
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I knew it quite high.

Most of the time he'll be out of the podium places then pop up with a Fastest lap surprising everyone. Just shown that he had immense pace. Shame that half the time he couldn't be bothered. Saying that it's one of the factors why I like him so much :cool:
 
or that he was a better qualifying driver than race driver ....

You dont exactly need good pit strategy and overtaking skills to set a fastest lap

Just a reasonable ammount of talent, the fastest car on the grid, and a car at optimum conditions.
 
Just looking at all the lap records for tracks from this season. Lots of MSC, quite a few from Kimi, same with alonso... then 3 from Montoya and one from Glock?!
 
Hxc said:
Just looking at all the lap records for tracks from this season. Lots of MSC, quite a few from Kimi, same with alonso... then 3 from Montoya and one from Glock?!
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2004 was MSC year. Ferrari dominated like no other season. Won everything. Had the quickest car by miles.

2005, last of the V10 cars? The Renault & McLaren's were quick. Alonso pipping Kimi to the title in the last race iirc. This is where you'll see lap records from Kimi, Montoya and Alonso.

What circuit does Glock hold? Was it last season with the super fast Toyota at Bahrain? Double diffuser and all that.
 
clv101 said:
Button's a top 6 driver lifted to the championship by a great car, Vettel the same. Alonso and Hamilton do have something extra. Looking further back, Hill and Villeneuve were similar to Button and Vettel (good but not great), whereas Schumacher and Häkkinen were a bit special. Räikkönen sits in the middle, not quite a MSC, HAK, ALO or HAM but better than Vettel, Button, Hill or Villeneuve.

Just my take on it.
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It's impossible to rank them due to car variations. You say Button Hill and Jv were lifted by having a great car but so was Hamilton Schumacher and especially hakkinen. Hakk did **** all until his car was the class of the field. Dc outscored him and should have beaten him to wins had he not have to gift them back to him.

Had MS not broken his leg hakk would have won a single championship. When his car was average again, he would often sit and do nothing.

When hamiltons car was a turd at the start of last year he looked a turd as well.

They always said MS could win in a shopping trolley until he got given one, then it took 6 cars to enter a race for him to win.

Villenueve was the best wheel to wheel racer F1 has seen since perhaps Mansell, he was just a victim of a set of regulations that didn't suit him and some of the worst career management and advice F1 has seen since Alesi turned down williams in 91.

They all need a car to lift them as was seen at the very last GP, for all the talk of Hamilton being gods gift at over taking he didn't have a clue what to do once Kubica blocked him once, he never had a go again. Alonso did the same with petrov.

You say Button is in the second tier but I'd argue that MS aside he won his first title with a car that was not as dominant for as long as Hakkinen, Alonso, JV, Vettel, Hill or Hamilton.

Of all the names mentioned if I was to build a car I knew would be dominant for 9 of 18 races in a season I'd want Alonso or Button in the car. Purely down to the ability of them not to make errors and keep bringing the car home in 1st.
 
Sebastian Vettel has a WDC F1 title. This is what his life has been geared towards. This lust for glory goes some-way to excuse his erratic behaviour at times and easily explains his poles, and race wins. "He is quick", I think would be an understatement, part of his speed was obviously due to the red bull which was undeniably the best car on the grid, but he also outperformed Webber over the season, but, is Webber a good comparison? As much as I love Webber and was really hoping he would get the WDC, he isn't the youngest, most prime chap on the field!

I'm confident he now has a championship we should see him calm down, the erratic mistakes we saw him make this year shouldn't happen in the next season, so rather than win, win, dnf, win, dnf, dnf etc etc, it will be more along the lines of win, 2nd, win, 4th, win. A much higher average which is a much better advantage.

I see no reason he won't win future championships and he is a definite future race winner. The next M.Schumacher? I guess only time will tell that one, if he maintains his urge to win then he easily has another 10 years in the sport. So really it is down to he career path, who has the potential to be the most consistent top constructor. Will he spend long with Red Bull or will we see him alongside Alonso at Ferrari?

I've kind of forgotten what i've written and what my point is, so i shall summerise by saying Vettel is one of my least favourite drivers, but he is a good racer and is good for the sport and offers a challenge and inspiration to others, ultimately I hope he crashing a huge fireball and is too scared to drive fast ever again.
 
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