The capability to analyse composite components is massive compared to even a few years ago. Link the layup information into an optimizer, feed it the limits of the FIA test and the material capabilities and then link to the CFD code to apply the correct boundary conditions, and then let it run for a few weeks on a very large computer.
See told you it was the fairies
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The capability to analyse composite components is massive compared to even a few years ago. Link the layup information into an optimizer, feed it the limits of the FIA test and the material capabilities and then link to the CFD code to apply the correct boundary conditions, and then let it run for a few weeks on a very large computer.
Yes exactly so you have to wonder why they aren't doing this with rear wings as well, why are we not seeing those flex by quite a margin like the fronts?
We know there is lots to gain in straight line speed by doing it.
We know there is lots to gain in straight line speed by doing it.
Soldato
The thing that always bothers me about all these tests and whether a car is legal or not, is the simple fact that all the scrutineering tests and the such, are static load tests, whereas we all know, and the teams know and the FIA knows, that there is a massive difference between a static test and a real world application.
Personally, I would like to see each car, at a test track, covered in sensors, so that the FIA can determine how the car moves, and if it moves in ways it shouldnt, then it is wrong.. plain and simples..
Personally, I would like to see each car, at a test track, covered in sensors, so that the FIA can determine how the car moves, and if it moves in ways it shouldnt, then it is wrong.. plain and simples..
That would be far too complicated to do every single upgrade, far easier to recognise there is a problem and change the test as they have done previously. Although quite why they haven't changed the test to push down on the end plates is strange.
If I remember correctly they changed the test to a more realistic loading direction to stop them doing it with the rear wing. The delay on doing it this time is puzzling.
Probably just waiting for everyone to spend millions and then they will act.
If I remember correctly they changed the test to a more realistic loading direction to stop them doing it with the rear wing. The delay on doing it this time is puzzling.
Probably just waiting for everyone to spend millions and then they will act.
The gain comes from the flex reducing the gap between the end of the wing and the road, effectively isolating the high and low pressure sides.
On the rear wing they already run with spacers to prevent the upper flap from sealing the gap with the lower one. If the rear wing actually bent enough to touch the ground I'm sure a few questions would be asked.
Yes but the way they were flexing before was the whole rear rear wing bent backwards to give lower drag but maintain high downforce through the turns. I'm wondering if they are doing that again now they have compounds strong enough to pass static tests but bend under aero load.
Soldato
I'm quite sure Red bull has found a way to make their wings flex more than anyone else's yet still pass the test... Which is exactly how to win.
Man of Honour
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I know I have said this many times about the wing, but it still amazes me how no other team has managed to work it out! Even more so, that, if there had not been the double decker loop hole RBR would probably have won that year too.
The McL front wing is flexing as well, though not to the extent of the one of the RBR. It takes time to create the processes and idealisations required to allow something as complex as the aero over a wing to be analysed quickly and accurately.
Soldato
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the test is conducted exactly?
How many times is it tested?
How much rest is there between tests?
How many times is it tested?
How much rest is there between tests?
If you're referring to that .gif someone posted of the McLaren 'flexing' in Australia, it's actually just a split second frame as the car jolts upwards over the bump. The whole car moves upwards from the bump, not the wing flexing. Hamilton has even commented in a recent interview that he's hoping McLaren find a way of their copying RBR's front wing as it's worth 0.5 sec.
Can't remember where I heard exactly but I think they are now putting 100kg strain on each end plate at the rear edge, one at a time. Which apparently is the equivalent of going 70mph in the Red Bull. Not sure how accurate that is.
Soldato
I will put forward my theory that the composites used by Red Bull are warming up after sustained loading and unloading, increasing flexibility by the second lap but allowing it to pass a static test.
Ok a friend reminded me of this incident from 2009, now read this and tell me why the **** the same principle has not been applied to the Red Bull?
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=37356
http://www.forumula1.com/2009/f1/f1-news/toyota-reprimanded-over-illegal-rear-wing/
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=37356
http://www.forumula1.com/2009/f1/f1-news/toyota-reprimanded-over-illegal-rear-wing/
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Man of Honour
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Have the FIA ever been consistent?
Soldato
Man of Honour
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lol
Soldato
I hope there is no tangle between the rb drivers this year, would hate to lose nuts again, good find
Caporegime
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Meh, its legal in that they can't find its illegal, its completely against the "spirit" of the rules, they are willfully, purposefully making an illegal car that also passes the inadequate tests.
They are getting wing damage that needs replacing because the ends of the wings flex so far, no other team faces this problem(well except those guys who continually seem to make contact around corners) and somehow the FIA can't pick up on that.
Personally it feels a tad, unsportsman like, everyone, and I mean every single person knows the Red Bull wing doesn't follow the rules in the book, just that the test simply isn't capable of making certain the rule is followed. Considering no one else is willfully breaking this rule, and because of that Red bull have a ridiculously big advantage and have won a title due to it, its ridiculous.
Whats worse is, f-ducts aren't illegal, kers wasn't illegal(yet removed for a year), double diffusers weren't illegal, yet the one thing everything is 98% sure is illegal, wasn't changed.
Its a joke, Red Bull will ONLY be pulled back into the pack when all the other cars figure out one thing, how to make an illegal front wing that also passes the test, and thats just shocking. We won't have fair racing till everyone else figures out how to cheat perfectly, makes a bit of a joke of the whole competition to be honest.
All this when anyone could have easily focused on front wing for rule changes which would not only have killed Red Bulls advantage, but made for a more competitive championship. Sure last season was good in so far as 4 races went into the final 2 races able to win the title, but that was not more than 2-3 times because any car looked anywhere near a Red Bull, but because of their own huge screw ups, had Vettel been supported from the first race and Webber gotten out of the way whenever required, he'd have won with a huge gap many races earlier. Thats with Red Bull cruising to the flag in half the races last year aswell at no where near their top speed.
They are getting wing damage that needs replacing because the ends of the wings flex so far, no other team faces this problem(well except those guys who continually seem to make contact around corners) and somehow the FIA can't pick up on that.
Personally it feels a tad, unsportsman like, everyone, and I mean every single person knows the Red Bull wing doesn't follow the rules in the book, just that the test simply isn't capable of making certain the rule is followed. Considering no one else is willfully breaking this rule, and because of that Red bull have a ridiculously big advantage and have won a title due to it, its ridiculous.
Whats worse is, f-ducts aren't illegal, kers wasn't illegal(yet removed for a year), double diffusers weren't illegal, yet the one thing everything is 98% sure is illegal, wasn't changed.
Its a joke, Red Bull will ONLY be pulled back into the pack when all the other cars figure out one thing, how to make an illegal front wing that also passes the test, and thats just shocking. We won't have fair racing till everyone else figures out how to cheat perfectly, makes a bit of a joke of the whole competition to be honest.
All this when anyone could have easily focused on front wing for rule changes which would not only have killed Red Bulls advantage, but made for a more competitive championship. Sure last season was good in so far as 4 races went into the final 2 races able to win the title, but that was not more than 2-3 times because any car looked anywhere near a Red Bull, but because of their own huge screw ups, had Vettel been supported from the first race and Webber gotten out of the way whenever required, he'd have won with a huge gap many races earlier. Thats with Red Bull cruising to the flag in half the races last year aswell at no where near their top speed.
Man of Honour
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Very well said.