***Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice***

[Borsch]

He goes down alongside Friede, Fume Knight, Manus and Gael in the dreaded pantheon of bosses who caved my skull in.

I would say DS3's Champion Gundir against knight and parrying tactic is the closest to SS for me. Friede was a teleporting cheat, Gael the slave knight was a simpleton one trick pony (I thought he was super easy), the rest are not from DS3 and I have no knowledge of. Champion Gundir is similar in that he also seems overwhelming and the fight is all about keeping composure and not letting panic to to affect tight parry timings.

I feel like I cheated not only the game, but myself... (etc.)

A win is a win, congrats You'll get a chance at redemption as this is not the end of him, and he will have learned even more moves for your 2nd and 3rd encounters
Here is my quick run at him recorded just now (two victories, second one hudless), you can compare your tactics. I did not use prosthetic, just parrying and dodging. Of course, this is nothing like my first run where I won by a whisker and felt like champion of the world.

Last boss needs fewer phases.

Isshin should be used in schools to teach composure under pressure - on the same day as Kipling's "If" haha. If there was a quick save feature, there would be no pressure, no boss to speak of and no feeling of hesitation and panic. I think he has Goldilocks amount of phases (it's the final boss! for most Sekiro players anyway) , but as I said, I may be biased as variants of Isshin are my favourite bosses in the game.

For me, Isshin took around 8 tries because I had been playing this entire game with this basic parry

My first playthrough was the same tactics wise, but there was a lot of hesitation and thus a lot more defeat Eight tries is pretty incredible.

So....a guy completed the game in 4 1/2 hours whilst fully blindfolded.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-07-30-sekiro-speedrunner-completes-game-while-blindfolded

Had a quick through his video and I never realized Sekiro had this many auditory cues and clues. Like Chained ogre's different grunts signaling different attacks etc. Crazy stuff though.

 

[strumpusplunket]

I would say DS3's Champion Gundir against knight and parrying tactic is the closest to SS for me. Friede was a teleporting cheat, Gael the slave knight was a simpleton one trick pony (I thought he was super easy), the rest are not from DS3 and I have no knowledge of. Champion Gundir is similar in that he also seems overwhelming and the fight is all about keeping composure and not letting panic to to affect tight parry timings.

You see, I was the other way around with them. I didn't struggle with Champion G much at all until NG+3 (at which point I discovered the most delicious cheese that I am still actually quite proud of). It wasn't Gael's tricks I found troublesome (I think I know what you mean by those), but the way he combined slight delays with sudden explosive movement - which is what reminded me of Isshin, and what I find hardest to deal with. I never parried in Dark Souls at all, incidentally.

A win is a win, congrats You'll get a chance at redemption as this is not the end of him, and he will have learned even more moves for your 2nd and 3rd encounters
Here is my quick run at him recorded just now (two victories, second one hudless), you can compare your tactics. I did not use prosthetic, just parrying and dodging. Of course, this is nothing like my first run where I won by a whisker and felt like champion of the world.

That is a nice video. I admire the way you stay cool even after mistakes that see you need to res. You stayed closer to him than I did, too. I was keeping between a half and a full spear length between us so that I would have time to react, but maybe that was the wrong instinct. I don't think I was consciously trying to or anything, it was probably an instinctive reaction. I did notice I screwed up the head jumps for the charged sweep several times due to being too far away so I should have learned and forced myself to fight those instincts.

(Does he really have more moves in NG+?? That would be cool actually. That happened in Nioh and I still think it's one of the best ways to keep the game intersting whilst increasing the challenge through game cycles. I am not sure I can handle new Sword Saint moves, though!

Isshin should be used in schools to teach composure under pressure haha. If there was a quick save feature, there would be no pressure, no boss to speak of and no feeling of hesitation and panic. I think he has Goldilocks amount of phases, but as I said, I may be biased as variants of Isshin are my favourite bosses in the game.

Ha, yeah, I definitely fail in the composure under pressure stakes! Actually, his phases are fine. I just was losing the will when I saw topless 'Chiro again after every damn death.

 

[Borsch]

(at which point I discovered the most delicious cheese that I am still actually quite proud of)

Pray tell I may still do a new game plus in DS3 at some point as its a masterpiece of a game too - especially to me who never played DS,DS1,DS2.

It wasn't Gael's tricks I found troublesome (I think I know what you mean by those), but the way he combined slight delays with sudden explosive movement - which is what reminded me of Isshin, and what I find hardest to deal with. I never parried in Dark Souls at all, incidentally.

I know what you mean, for me Nameless King was the worst offender in this regard. Tough boss again Subjectively Isshin does not do that, but maybe I'm just used to him now.

you stay cool even after mistakes

I am just a jaded old man when it comes to Sekiro - having beaten all variants of all bosses individually and in gauntlets. I don't really get to feel its pressure anymore sadly Until I play charmless - then its back in full

You stayed closer to him than I did, too. I was keeping between a half and a full spear length between us so that I would have time to react

Staying at sword length is part of "controlled aggression" tactic, literally the second the boss is too far for your sword's deflect or attack, his posture starts to drop. You can see it @0:46 etc. It's the beauty of sekiro's combat system, one has to constantly slug it out toe-to-toe and win or lose quickly. Take DS3's Gael for example, I just kept running away from him and poked at his health bar every so often - the complete opposite in other words.

Does he really have more moves in NG+?? That would be cool actually.

Don't want to spoil too much, but but there is a 2nd Isshin with a completely different move set, and a 3rd that is a variant of this one - who can jump reverse your lightning reversals so that you could reverse him again, and more )

 

[strumpusplunket]

Pray tell I may still do a new game plus in DS3 at some point as its a masterpiece of a game too - especially to me who never played DS,DS1,DS2.

Well, it relies on bursting him down before he can do anything. I managed to make this work using a few prerequisites: at least 30Fth (ideally 40 - on your second or third run through this shouldn't be a challenge), lightning clutch ring, red tearstone ring (and damage yourself to 20% health), priestess ring (if your fth is high enough you can skip this, but more is always better), Morion blade offhand. Then you abuse his slow startup by running right up to him and spamming falling bolt from the Dragonslayer Greataxe. You should get three or four off before he can attack you. Roll through his first attack and do one more from behind. With your lightning damage boosted enough that should be him done, or maybe needing one more hit. Tears of denial is good to have on in case you screw up rolling through the attack or if he still needs another hit.

You could probably make this work on other bosses, but CG is perfect for it because he is weak to lightning anyway and he doesn't move for a few seconds right at the start of the fight. Go glass lightning cannon!

I am just a jaded old man when it comes to Sekiro - having beaten all variants of all bosses individually and in gauntlets. I don't really get to feel its pressure anymore sadly Until I play charmless - then its back in full
Staying at sword length is part of "controlled aggression" tactic, literally the second the boss is too far for your sword's deflect or attack, his posture starts to drop. You can see it @0:46 etc. It's the beauty of sekiro's combat system, one has to constantly slug it out toe-to-toe and win or lose quickly.

I am old man too, but I need to become more jaded! From Soft bosses still get me worked up!

I was up close and personal with all the other bosses. Man, spear users really mess with my head in this game.

Don't want to spoil too much, but but there is a 2nd Isshin with a completely different move set, and a 3rd that is a variant of this one - who can jump reverse your lightning reversals so that you could reverse him again, and more )

I don't even know what to say to that!!

 

[Amatsubu]

I don't even know what to say to that!!

I think the other Isshin is a bit harder than Saint, also because the boss before him is like five times harder than Genichiro

Third Isshin is a part of the optional gauntlets I believe, I haven't tried those as I completed everything within a month after release due to Sekiro addiction and those were released much later.

 

[Borsch]

Well, it relies on bursting him down before he can do anything. I managed to make this work using a few prerequisites snip

Thanks, made a note to myself for the future. For now it all went over my head as I only played with strength and dexterity builds -no magic, faith, pyro, etc. The default knight character is so awesome (the best medieval knight representation ever in video games imo) that I played through DS3 twice using nothing but medium shields and one handed broadswords/longswords.

I think the other Isshin is a bit harder than Saint, also because the boss before him is like five times harder than Genichiro

Third Isshin is a part of the optional gauntlets I believe, I haven't tried those as I completed everything within a month after release due to Sekiro addiction and those were released much later.

 

[Amatsubu]

So DS3 actually did click with me, it still feels a bit clunky and slow and I don't know what I'm doing but I'm past the Greatwood and feeling like I want to continue, unlike the last time I played.

This only made me want to replay Sekiro and experience the awesome combat again though, am I'm also stoked for Elden Ring now which looks like a cross between the two.

 

[strumpusplunket]

So DS3 actually did click with me, it still feels a bit clunky and slow and I don't know what I'm doing but I'm past the Greatwood and feeling like I want to continue, unlike the last time I played.

This only made me want to replay Sekiro and experience the awesome combat again though, am I'm also stoked for Elden Ring now which looks like a cross between the two.

Yay, good to hear! Remember that you don't need to be consrtained by your starting class. I like to add a touch of int or fth or dex to change up the options when I start as knight. I went through the whole first run as a mostly a str build but added enough dex to try out some other weapons, and then started adding more dex and fth on my NG+ cycles. You need 16-18 dex for most curved swords and twinblades for example, and you'll probably find them a bit less clunky than the longsword (though I can't remember how soon you can find one...).

I know what you mean about the Sekiro combat, though, it is just wonderfully implemented.

Saw Elden Ring appear on Steam this morning with a Jan release date and it's straight to the top of my wishlist.

 

[Amatsubu]

Yay, good to hear! Remember that you don't need to be consrtained by your starting class. I like to add a touch of int or fth or dex to change up the options when I start as knight. I went through the whole first run as a mostly a str build but added enough dex to try out some other weapons, and then started adding more dex and fth on my NG+ cycles. You need 16-18 dex for most curved swords and twinblades for example, and you'll probably find them a bit less clunky than the longsword (though I can't remember how soon you can find one...).

I know what you mean about the Sekiro combat, though, it is just wonderfully implemented.

Saw Elden Ring appear on Steam this morning with a Jan release date and it's straight to the top of my wishlist.

So far I've been focused on pumping my vigour up to 20 with some points into endurance, I'll be putting some points into strength from now on and see how I fare. I want to play basic sword melee my first run (knight and all), currently using fire-infused knight broadsword reinforced to +3 but I also have the Irithyll straight sword which looks cool as hell and thinking about using that for a change Also looking to add some flair to my looks Fashion Souls style as the starting armour is getting a tiny bit stale so if you have any suggestions share them by all means

Quite a departure from running with a giant scythe and the moonlight sword in Bloodborne

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I'm trying to persevere with this, but finding even the first boss battle a bit unforgiving.

I'm sure I'll get past him eventually...

 

[Amatsubu]

I'm trying to persevere with this, but finding even the first boss battle a bit unforgiving.

I'm sure I'll get past him eventually...

Don't give up, when the combat clicks you'll be good to go

Remember to stay on the offensive, this is different than Dark Souls and you'll get more mileage from filling your opponent's posture bar with pressure and successful deflects than from staying back and chipping away at their health (with some rare exceptions). There's a certain rhythm to it you'll get with more playtime and experience with enemies' patterns, just keep on trying and stand your ground, this is the "controlled aggression" we've mentioned here a couple of times.

It's the same with me, I platinumed this game, finished Bloodborne with DLC and I'm dying quite often to certain mobs in DS3 because it feels different but I'm slowly getting better

"Hesitation is defeat"

 

[Borsch]

So DS3 actually did click with me, it still feels a bit clunky and slow and I don't know what I'm doing but I'm past the Greatwood and feeling like I want to continue, unlike the last time I played.

Yay! I've also given up on my first playthrough, right at the beginning (Gundir) - the whole mechanic did not feel satisfying. The knight looked cool though and I came back years later. The key to enjoying combat is not to limit yourself to basic slash attacks. Time your kicks, backstabs and parries and DS3 becomes an (almost, maybe, not really ) Sekiro beater. No seriously, combat is great in DS3.
My quick compilation of Knight combat skills:

I like to add a touch of int or fth or dex to change up the options when I start as knight.

My advice would be different Max your strength (together with the obligatory HP and stamina) and use heavy gems to sharpen your swards to +10 for the first knight playthrough. Broadsword or longsword are my favorite one handed swords (do not like two handed or great swords' backstab animations, one handers rule in Fashion Souls ). Forget about magic, jsut fight your way though everything - its the most satisfying way to play imo. Dexterity is also a viable alternative to strength, and opens Lothric knight one handed longsword and the sharp gem route.
Also, do not worry about changing your mind with the skills as you'll be able to redistribute your skill points from around midgame onwards.

Also looking to add some flair to my looks Fashion Souls style as the starting armour is getting a tiny bit stale so if you have any suggestions share them by all means

Default knight was my favourite by very far, but I did mix it up with Lothric knight knight red cape, elite knight helmet and fallen knight leggins (?) now and then

 

[Borsch]

first boss battle

Which boss? It's a bit of a grey area with how one counts them. Timing is everything in this game, and you have to time everything jsut right. Take dodges for example, if you dodge/sidestep too early the enemy will track you with his attack, but do it at the very last moment and he will miss.
To me the Chained Ogre was the first boss in Sekiro, and the above advice (focus on timing) works really well. Old and wise now, I revisited him couple of weeks ago:

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Which boss?

General Kuranosuke Matsumoto

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Don't give up, when the combat clicks you'll be good to go...

Cheers for the tips.

 

[Amatsubu]

Yay! I've also given up on my first playthrough, right at the beginning (Gundir) - the whole mechanic did not feel satisfying. The knight looked cool though and I came back years later. The key to enjoy combat is not to limit yourself to basic slash attacks. Time your kicks, backstabs and parries and DS3 becomes an (almost, maybe, not really ) Sekiro beater. No seriously, combat is great in DS3.

Last time I stopped was High Wall because I couldn't get into the game, didn't find Gundyr too terrifying but like you I didn't like the mechanics too much. This time I stuck with it and it got interesting enough for me to want to continue.

Yeah, so far I've just been slashing and i-framing into opponents' attacks due to my Bloodborne habits
A couple of parries and backstsbs here and there but I need to go have some fun with Lothric knights to practice

The areas can actually be pretty challenging, some enemies feel like they come from Bloodborne but my character doesn't

Also:

 

[Borsch]

General Kuranosuke Matsumoto

Amatsubu's "controlled aggression" advice is a very good one here. The moment you stop attacking to heal or get your breath back, Gen Kuranoske-san also gets his breath posture back. Dont let that happen- stay on him, make him block and deflect his attacks. Win or lose, but do it quickly. Jump stomps over his sweeping attacks and mikiri counters against his thrusts should also be developed into a habit. I also used to kill his entourage with shurikens, let him deaggro and backstab his first life Throw ash into his face to blind him when he is readying his attacks.

Also:

Jumping into the unknown, what did he expect? Cake? Its not Portal

 

[Amatsubu]

Jumping into the unknown, what did he expect? Cake? Its not Portal

I know, it was just hilarious Also, he knew the guy was close, it happened to me once as well in that very place, I thought he was a bit further away

 

[Amatsubu]

Ok, guys, consider me a convert, I got officially sucked into DS3

I started digging the atmosphere and I'm really having quite a lot of fun with exploration and combat,
even though the levels are so far a bit behind Bloodborne and the bosses I faced were easy so it'll feel weird when I inevitably start getting my teeth kicked in later on as I know what's coming

Wish Sekiro had more rewarding exploration and levels, that's one of the low points of the game but I understand why they did it like that.

 

[Borsch]

Ok, guys, consider me a convert, I got officially sucked into DS3

"Yes, indeed" It was inevitable I assume, like me, you did not play the previous installments - DS,DS1,DS2? To DS veterans DS3 was a rehash, but to us freshmen, it's an epiphany. Which area/part of the game was the tipping point for you?
To me, on my second try (after having platinumed Sekiro), the tipping point was the Firelink Shrine - just the incredible attention to detail with crooked stairway slabs, and seemingly not a single straight edge/copy-paste in architecture... the music, the voiceover, the characters. The passion of game creators was oozing from every pixel. I knew then that this game is "once in a decade"/GOAT candidate etc. I still rate Sekiro higher, but that is no knock on DS3.