Sennheiser HD650 - The classic beauty in a grey dress Appreciation thread!

Nocky24 said:
Is there a perceivable difference when comparing the old grey box 650s vs the newer ones? I bought my set brand new in February of this year and think they're fantastic, but I still wonder what the older versions sound like.
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I think it is actually the pads. I didn't think it was before but I've noticed my current pair have softer pads where as the previous ones had harder pads.

I've had an older black driver model and it was more of a darker headphone with a lusher sound. The silver driver is a superior driver with a quicker, more hifi sound.
 
james.miller said:
i dont know if they are much worse, they are more 'different'. I think most people would agree that the 650s are better at what they do than the 700s are at what they do. I don't know if that makes them worse, i guess it depends on what you want.
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The HD700 lacks coherency and doesn't quite present the music in a flowing, natural way. It also has an out of control treble section, it's too unnatural lacking smoothness and the vocal section feels too distant.

I agree it does depend on what someone wants. I personally can't find one section the HD700 does well in minus soundstage and passable imaging.

It was like they tried to mix the hd600 with the HD800 without taking into account both are made for different reasons(HD600 music HD800 high end music tool) it literally sounds like two headphones rolled into one, it doesn't work at all IMO.

Sounds like I'm hating lol I kind of am, but more frustrated that a company like Sennheiser has been putting out such crap in the last few years.

Anyone thinking about the HD700 I'm sorry but I've gotta be honest, check out the graphs also, while they are not always accurate, I think they give an idea of what to expect.
 
Think i'll send the hd600 off for a full spruce up ... £78 is nto to bad , and I haven't played them in well over 18 months . Would be nice to hear them again . headband is completely off and earpads need replacing , so a total fix is a good price imo
 
The talk of a treble spike on the hd700s is just silly. Head over to headfi and find a huge thread of people with no issue. Not denying the treble spike, but it is not horrible nor is it bad for all things.

The smoothness of the hd650s is the very thing that makes them muddy. They don't care what you listen to, they are kjng for listening to poor source material but if, like me, you prefer the detail then hd800s and to a lesser extent hd700s are amazing. I will admit this is not to everyones tastes and is why it makes no sense for people to say they are upgrading to hd800s from the 650s as the sound and the aim of the phones is so different.
 
Jasonst888 said:
The talk of a treble spike on the hd700s is just silly. Head over to headfi and find a huge thread of people with no issue. Not denying the treble spike, but it is not horrible nor is it bad for all things.

The smoothness of the hd650s is the very thing that makes them muddy. They don't care what you listen to, they are kjng for listening to poor source material but if, like me, you prefer the detail then hd800s and to a lesser extent hd700s are amazing. I will admit this is not to everyones tastes and is why it makes no sense for people to say they are upgrading to hd800s from the 650s as the sound and the aim of the phones is so different.
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Saying the treble spike is silly then quoting headfi which is probably one of the most unreliable sites for serious audio is quite funny. The talk about the HD700 is from the big massive treble spike, you can miss it it basically creates the HD700's sound giving it more forced detail. Also the complaints about the HD700 have been pretty big from top reviewers..

What are you talking about? smooth response doesn't create a muddy response, a mid bass hump with a rolled off treble and dipped upper mids can create a a muddy effect..so can high distortion, lack of openness ether in the pads or the ear cups can also create this.

A smooth response means there's no peaks or dips, nothing will be recessed and if the driver is well made which the 600 series drivers are, you get higher resolution, better micro detail no no false imagining.. all that.

If you are getting a muddy sound something is either wrong with the phones or your gear isn't a good match. The HD650 also don't mask up bad recordings, bad recordings sound crap on the HD650, the Nighthawk is a headphone for that.

What did you drive the HD650 with?
 
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I drove the 650s with a basic soundcard, magni stack, lyr2, and an audeze deckard. Simple fact is to me they sound muddy. To you they don't. I am not disputing your hearing nor am I claiming the hd700s are perfect without treble, rather i was pointing to the fact that large numbers of people use them without issue and the treble peak is either not noticed or is not severe enough to be an issue for plenty of people.

Sound is massively down to individual perception. I did not join this thread to criticise the hd650s (i think they are fantastic for what they are) but i felt a balanced view is important and when i see criticism of the hd700s i tend to defend them as i have a soft spot for them as one of my first high end headphones.

On a side note, headfi is a huge forum dedicated to audio equipment, to say it is unreliable is to say the ocuk forums are unreliable, all forums are unreliable to an extent....it is about the discussion, for every unreliable post their is a contrary point to help educate you. The trouble with reviews on sound equipment is it is so subjective and unless you test each piece of equipment used by the same reviewer and felt it was exactly the same as the review reports, it is all opinion and should be backed up with personal testing.

Anyway, didnt comment to annoy anyone, just thought i would add my two cents.
 
Opinions are like bum holes everybodies got one. My opinion is that i like my hd700s, they make good recordings sound outstanding and poor recordings sound well...poor, as they say you can't polish a ****.
 
can you compare the HD598s to the HD650s? i hear the 598 sound the same but with a bit more bass and i tiny bit of a mid range sound stage difference, hence why I cant justify and extra 120 quid for that minor difference?

also the AKG 712s, isnt that better?

Ive bought the AKG M50X 2 days ago, it sounds the same as the Momentoms over ear, hence why I returned the momentoms, but the M50X does sound pretty decent on my ZX.

Tomorrow im picking up the 518s as ive considered the 598s but hear the 518/558/598 have the same drivers, its just the housing thats different

Might be same with the 600s and the 650s as im sure its the same driver.

Im gonna sell my wireless H and my old 515s to cover the cost...

I must admit that I looked into the 650s as there are some excellent deals going on the Zon right now, I looked at the 990 250ohm and the 712s and the 650s, so im still kind of deciding what to do...
 
danoliver1 said:
Opinions are like bum holes everybodies got one. My opinion is that i like my hd700s, they make good recordings sound outstanding and poor recordings sound well...poor, as they say you can't polish a ****.
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Not gonna diss the 700s - but one thing I've found with the 600 series - getting the best out of them is actually a bit deceptive - some seriously high end gear and/or popular "proven" headphone amps actually don't even though you'd think they must do. When you hear them on an amp that does work well with them it can be quite uh eye opening and it changes your perspective on other headphones - though I don't think that makes the 700/800s bad - but I can kind of see why Ryan would be negative in comparison.
 
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While this may be a "love fest" thread for the 650 , it's definitely going to bring in opinions of other sennheiser headphones :)

The 650 is a something I don't own . In regards the 598 I think they pick out detail that the 600 ( note not the 650 ) , does not . And while it took me a while to get used to my 700's ( about a month ) , I love them . Found it took a while to adjust to the slight vice-like grip comapared to the 598 and the 600 . But the earpads are not the same , and they did bed-in :)
 
I really liked my HD 650s. I preferred them to my HD 600s, but I ultimately sold them both and kept my HD 580s. They're 9/10ths the same headphone.

I did recently treat my HD 580s to new earpads, grilles and headband foams, but haven't used much them as I prefer my Denon AH-D600s due to being closed-back. I might get them out and give them a blast as I'd all but forgotten about them.
 
I preferred the HD650 to HD600 for all but vocal heavy tracks. The HD 650 has a slightly bassier sound. Both are fantastic.

Be sure to buy a proper headphone amplifier like a Graham Slee Solo to drive them, and a DAC if you can afford it too. Alternatively leave a standalone DAC as a follow-on upgrade to your system.
 
Jasonst888 said:
I drove the 650s with a basic soundcard, magni stack, lyr2, and an audeze deckard. Simple fact is to me they sound muddy. To you they don't. I am not disputing your hearing nor am I claiming the hd700s are perfect without treble, rather i was pointing to the fact that large numbers of people use them without issue and the treble peak is either not noticed or is not severe enough to be an issue for plenty of people.

Sound is massively down to individual perception. I did not join this thread to criticise the hd650s (i think they are fantastic for what they are) but i felt a balanced view is important and when i see criticism of the hd700s i tend to defend them as i have a soft spot for them as one of my first high end headphones.

On a side note, headfi is a huge forum dedicated to audio equipment, to say it is unreliable is to say the ocuk forums are unreliable, all forums are unreliable to an extent....it is about the discussion, for every unreliable post their is a contrary point to help educate you. The trouble with reviews on sound equipment is it is so subjective and unless you test each piece of equipment used by the same reviewer and felt it was exactly the same as the review reports, it is all opinion and should be backed up with personal testing.

Anyway, didnt comment to annoy anyone, just thought i would add my two cents.
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You didn't annoy me and doesn't look like anyone got offended. Yup sound preference e is a personal thing but frequency response isn't. If you prefer the HD700 that's cool, I'm just pointing out its faults and when I weigh up everything like tonal balance, coherency, speed of the driver I just think it's a really bad headphone.
 
hobib_ali said:
can you compare the HD598s to the HD650s? i hear the 598 sound the same but with a bit more bass and i tiny bit of a mid range sound stage difference, hence why I cant justify and extra 120 quid for that minor difference?

also the AKG 712s, isnt that better?

Ive bought the AKG M50X 2 days ago, it sounds the same as the Momentoms over ear, hence why I returned the momentoms, but the M50X does sound pretty decent on my ZX.

Tomorrow im picking up the 518s as ive considered the 598s but hear the 518/558/598 have the same drivers, its just the housing thats different

Might be same with the 600s and the 650s as im sure its the same driver.

Im gonna sell my wireless H and my old 515s to cover the cost...

I must admit that I looked into the 650s as there are some excellent deals going on the Zon right now, I looked at the 990 250ohm and the 712s and the 650s, so im still kind of deciding what to do...
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Where did you hear that? The 598 is a basic entry level headphone. The 650 is a headphone that competes with the likes of the Audeze's, Hifiman's and best many of them. It's a different world of resolution and the whole lot, 650 does everything better. 598 has a wider soundstage but is doesn't sound conected like the 650.

If you want a serious high end headphone that is natural, scalable, end game then go 650.

K712 is good, sounds better out of low end gear. 650 is better.
 
I think peoples perception of sound can vary more than most people expect or are willing to admit. I've been visiting Head-Fi on a regular basis since 2004 and some of the statements people would make about headphones were at times contradictory to what I actually experienced myself. When deciding on what to buy, it's very important to take as many user opinions onboard as possible before pulling the trigger, regardless of how trustworthy someone may be. I've made quite a few regrettable purchases over the years based on peoples comments on Head-Fi. It's a great website and a valuable source of information and opinions, but you do have to be very careful and understand that most of the reviews are highly subjective and only completely true for the reviewer.

There's also the issue of 'sound preference' which can itself change over time. I quite like a slightly warm and forward sound with smooth treble response, which is why the HD650 sounds so good to my ears, but go back say 10 years and I'm pretty sure I would have considered tham to be lacking in bass with way too much midrange emphasis. I also have a different taste in music now, which lends itself better to a forward and rich midrange. I used to think my Audio Technica A900s were the bees knees before I got the HD650. They now sound very hollow to my ears and bordering on unlistenable, unless I give my ears a solid week to adjust to the sound. Nothing I've listened to so far sound as cohesive or complete as the HD650. Other headphones do certain things better, but the HD650 does everything 99% as good or better.
 
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^^ Its very easy to think that something with a bright, "fun" sound and.or combined with heavy bass is higher quality than something with a flatter linear response - until you really start to appreciate the subtitles.
 
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