Sennheiser HD650 - The classic beauty in a grey dress Appreciation thread!

I didn't appreciate cohesiveness as much until recently! It's amazing how many headphones lack in this area! The AKG's lack here big time, the newer Denon's and many others. The HE-500 I thought done nearly as good of a job as the 650.

I now consider things like coherency, resolution as much as I do mids and sub bass. Sadly the 650 don't have quite the sub bass as something like an Audeze or Night or Fostex but the rest is perfect.
 
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I think that is amp dependant a bit - at least with my 600s the OPA2211/LM4562 combination produces really nice open, detailed sound but is a touch anaemic for sub-bass whereas with the AD8066/LM4562 pairing I've got all the sub-bass I'd ever want (though a touch of treble veil sadly).
 
I don't think sub bass is lacking all that much on the HD650, its just the slight mid bass hump that overshadows it. Mid bass humps are generally a bad thing for headphones, but Sennheiser seem to have pulled it off so well here it's actually a positive in my book. Its just enough to give the sound some body and weight, but not too much that it spills into the midrange and becomes overbearing. Whatever the case, I have no issues listening to bass heavy music on my HD650, but I'm sure that's something that can be improved upon if they ever do release a true successor to the 650.
 
The 400i have better extension in the bass and treble, but the mids whilst very transparent and detailed, are not as forward or lush as the 650. The 400i have a more open and airy sound, where as the 650 is more closed in and dense. The treble on the 400i has a lot of bite and sounds absolutely gorgeous with well recorded acoustic music. With some harsh recirdings it can sound a little peaky, but thats usually a flaw with the recording. I can definitely pick up more detail with the 400i than the 650 and listening to the 400i for a while and then returning to the 650, makes you appreciate peoples comments on the 'sennheiser veil'. I'm still a little dubious over that though, as I'd argue that the 650 has the right amount of treble and other headphones just have an excess of it. Could just be my ears though, as I've always been very sensitive to loud and high pitched sounds and find things like alarm bells painful at times.

All in all, I still prefer the 650 as I think they are simply more intimate ans musical to my ears, have superior midrange and easier to listen to over long periods.
 
TwsT said:
how do the 650's compare to the he 400i?
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The HE-400i seems to come in 2 forms, you either get a more dark sound with forward mids or a more bright sound with more bass extension and less forward mids.

The main difference is the way the HD650 handles it's background and midrange. The 650 picks out small details better and the driver is overall quicker and more precise. 400i handles bass a bit better but I found impact to be equal, 400i when it comes to vocals sounds more blurred where as the 650 has better clarity, more natural. 400i has good mids, it's not quite HD650. The older one I had was actually more closer to the HD650 but Hifiman seem to have left that sound behind or it was the typical inconsistencies.

The 400i is easier to drive thus sounds better as a whole when you drive from phones, DAP's where as with an amp I think the 650 sounds better regardless.

Treble smoothness 650>400i
Treble extension 400i>650
Detail 650>400
Mids 650>400i
Vocal enjoyment 650>400i
Micro detail 650>400i
Bass extension 400i>650
Impact 400i>650(close)
Smoothness across the entire response 650>400i
Quality control & Consistency between drivers 650>>>>>>>>>>>>>>400i

The HD650 has all the detail you need before going into analytical area. It's only fault is the bass area which is still pretty darn good.

Unless you are going to try find an old revision 2 LCD-2 nothing really beats the HD650 under 1k.
 
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Dammit Ryan.

Reason I ask is because they are on mm from titaniumx3 the price is close to 650 so I could sell them and switch if I don't like them and buy the 650 anyway. I think I need to do it anyway if 650s are what you day they are I will end up with them anyway so I may as well risk losing 20 trying the 400i first
 
That's a good price. Just don't do what I did with the LCD-2. I bought a pair, sold them as I needed the funds at the time with always my end goal to buy a pair again. I kept putting them off still with the end goal then boom, they changed them by adding them silly fazors and even worse quality control and now all pre fazor are either out of warranty, or nobody wants to sale them...

Now I'm waiting for them to fix the fazors which will prob never happen lol

My point? get the 650! read this http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd650-love.44/

This guy, he comes across a bit arrogant but his headphone knowledge is impressive, he also has a good measurement system that actually sounds closer to how they sound to my own ears where as Tyll's seems more flashy.
 
TwsT said:
Dammit Ryan.

Reason I ask is because they are on mm from titaniumx3 the price is close to 650 so I could sell them and switch if I don't like them and buy the 650 anyway. I think I need to do it anyway if 650s are what you day they are I will end up with them anyway so I may as well risk losing 20 trying the 400i first
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Regardless of what headphones I get in the future, I will always have a 650 in my collection. In fact, I plan on getting a spare one soon as they will probably go out of production soon.

There's lots of people with the same viewpoint as Ryan with regards to the HD650 and other far more expensive and supposedly superior headphones. It's not the first time I've read people going back to using the 650 after spending thousands on other audiophile headphones.
 
Hmm, forget the HD800 talk in the other thread then, perhaps I need to hear the 650 instead and see how it delivers vs the modded K7XX on my amp!

Cheapest place to get them these days?

Edit* Z review (HbwaZOuCxfQ) says the 700 is actually pretty decent. HD600 being ideal for neutrality.
 
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The rain forest is the cheapest I've found. Z reviews, he's a funny dude but personally I don't trust his ears for making big audio decisions he seems to be quite new to reviews and he has trouble finding subtleties that could be a deal breaker for many. I enjoy his reviews though! HD600 has a good driver, it struggles with separation more than the 650 and vocals can sound more shorty unless you do some amp matching. It also has a more notable sub bass roll off. I believe you have the NAD D7050? or 1050? Either way both are quite a smooth balanced sound so it might counteract the HD600's rough patches(It's smoother through the response than the K7XX but there's a peak in the mids that I think is a result of the older, less damped driver that still has some sharpness to it)

Both HD600 + 650 will be an upgrade over the K7XX on your NAD. The 650 will sound more natural, a bit of mid range lushness. Despite being an upgrade it doesn't mean you'd like them though.. but if you enjoy the K7XX sound and want to stick with it then the HD800 would be a closer sound if you want a clearer upgrade path.

The 650 also has cohesion which many headphones are lacking including all the AKG drivers.

Try the 650 on amazing, listen to only them for a few days, adjust and send em back if they are not for you.
 
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Ryanr1987 said:
Either way both are quite a smooth balanced sound so it might counteract the HD600's rough patches(It's smoother through the response than the K7XX but there's a peak in the mids that I think is a result of the older, less damped driver that still has some sharpness to it)
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My older ones sound a bit like that - the ones I bought off Amazon ~18 months back or so I don't really notice it - sound much more like the older 650s (much smoother through the whole range) only a little thicker sounding (not sure quite how to describe it but they sound a bit deader/heavier than the old 650s).
 
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Ryanr1987 said:
The rain forest is the cheapest I've found. Z reviews, he's a funny dude but personally I don't trust his ears for making big audio decisions he seems to be quite new to reviews and he has trouble finding subtitles that could be a deal breaker for many. I enjoy his reviews though! HD600 has a good driver, it struggles with separation more than the 650 and vocals can sound more shorty unless you do some amp matching. It also has a more notable sub bass roll off. I believe you have the NAD D7050? or 1050? Either way both are quite a smooth balanced sound so it might counteract the HD600's rough patches(It's smoother through the response than the K7XX but there's a peak in the mids that I think is a result of the older, less damped driver that still has some sharpness to it)

Both HD600 + 650 will be an upgrade over the K7XX on your NAD. The 650 will sound more natural, a bit of mid range lushness. Despite being an upgrade it doesn't mean you'd like them though.. but if you enjoy the K7XX sound and want to stick with it then the HD800 would be a closer sound if you want a clearer upgrade path.

The 650 also has cohesion which many headphones are lacking including all the AKG drivers.

Try the 650 on amazing, listen to only them for a few days, adjust and send em back if they are not for you.
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Edit* Yeah 7050 is what I have. The K7XX gets loud at -5dB on the volume dial, the X1/X2 got loud around -10. The K7XX are definitely a quieter headphone compared to what I've owned in the past, but nothing too severe. The HD595/598 were louder than the X1/X2 at the same volume.

Well can't argue with that. They will be here on Sunday :cool:

The cable will be insufferable for sure (too thick, too heavy, too long and no simple 3.5mm jack). If I like the headphones though, I will order a replacement.
 
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The 600 cable has a 3.5mm jack embedded in the 6.3mm which is nice but I actually have the 650 cable (which atleast on mine doesn't have the embedded jack) on my 600s as it feels higher quality and doesn't have the red and blue connections (which is a bit of a silly thing but I prefer them looking more subtle). The length I've mixed feelings about as its a pain when you are sitting at the PC but nice if you need to get up to grab something nearby or relaxing (sofa/comfy chair) to watch a movie at night where you can't use speakers, etc.
 
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I just much prefer lightweight braided cables like the above. the AKG one I have now is awesome for that. I used the stock 3m cable when I do want to listen from afar though.
 
Awesome. Look forward to impressions. I'm a fan of smaller cables, I find the 650 cable quite flexible and folds up nicely. If it ends up being too much, there's some nice gator cables and also CustomCans makes some nice ones.

You will know of the HD650 is requiring more as it tends to sound muted, bit compressed when under driven. The 7050 was a beast when I tried it so should be no issues at all.

@Rroff - That's interesting. Maybe another slight change to fix the unrefinements?
 
Ryanr1987 said:
When I had my Crack the HD650 was very fast and agile. With the Chord Mojo on its own I get fantastic resolution and speed by I also get some of that warmth and slightly slower decay in comparison. What I like about the Mojo and 650 paring is its all about emotion and elegance rather than business. The Crack was warm and had a lush voicing but the speedball made it less so than other tube amps.
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I love my crack amp and hd600 headphones tubes 5998 and mullard cv4003 :)

merry christmas





 
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This is where it all goes out the window.

So many conflicting reviews about the HD600 and HD650.

People say the ultimate neutral headphone is the HD600. The HD650 is basically a modded slightly warmer/darker HD600 iirc. So people tend to prefer it as it's slightly more natural even if it's not as neutral as the HD600.

Basically if your working in a studio the HD600 is probably the better option. For enjoying music most likely the HD650. Never listened to the 650 but I own the HD600 and I have to say it's simply sublime.

I would say everyones end game for music should be 600's or 650's after that your throwing money away. It's not worth spending 3-10 times as much for slight improvements. Law of diminishing returns and all.

For gaming nobody should look further than the Q701, K702, etc from AKG or AD700 range from Audio Technica.
 
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