^^ I'm not exactly making life easy for myself plus the O2 is tuned for a very exact setup without much margin for using it in ways it wasn't 100% intended for heh - it is still by far the best way to get high performance out of a basic op amp setup though.
Sennheiser HD650 - The classic beauty in a grey dress Appreciation thread!
- Thread starter Ryanr1987
- Start date
I need to roll op amps on my X7 although I do like the airy signature for soundstage in most games. I personally would prefer something a little thicker for the current HD600 that has a peak in the upper mid range but I recall you saying your HD600 was pretty smoothed over?
Not sure what the latest 600s sound like - around the time I was buying my latest pair (about 3-4 years ago now) I seem to recall there was a lot of comments about them sounding different to what people expected.
While they don't sound like the 650s - compared to much older 600 and 650s they sound closer to the 650 than 600 with a much smoother overall sound.
I'm yet to find an op amp setup I'm 100% happy with for the 600s - I think the OPA1602 is the closest - very natural sound with typical burr brown thickness but not as thick as the OPA2227/8 but it would need to be mounted on adapters for the X7.
While they don't sound like the 650s - compared to much older 600 and 650s they sound closer to the 650 than 600 with a much smoother overall sound.
I'm yet to find an op amp setup I'm 100% happy with for the 600s - I think the OPA1602 is the closest - very natural sound with typical burr brown thickness but not as thick as the OPA2227/8 but it would need to be mounted on adapters for the X7.
The pair I heard recently seem to have the stiffer pads like the black box 650's. I noticed the upper mids still had that peak that my 600's had a few years ago, good resolution I thought it was closer to the 650 than I previously thought but not as refined in the treble and not as neutral through the mid range but otherwise excellent.
I think all HD600 and 650's will have the stiffer pads which will need time to break in. The HD600 I listened to I compared to the Mrspeakers Ether. I thought the HD600 was a superior headphone when it came to balance especially in the treble. Resolution was about the same on my Chord Mojo. It is incredible that the 600 series is still so good and that other headphones companies need to step it up big time in their price points.
For the 600 series I'd personally just grab a Bottle Head Crack and call it a day, I'm sure you'd build one without much sweat. When my LCD-2 pre fazor eventually die, and they will because let's face it; they are made from Audeze - I may consider another Crack.
I think all HD600 and 650's will have the stiffer pads which will need time to break in. The HD600 I listened to I compared to the Mrspeakers Ether. I thought the HD600 was a superior headphone when it came to balance especially in the treble. Resolution was about the same on my Chord Mojo. It is incredible that the 600 series is still so good and that other headphones companies need to step it up big time in their price points.
For the 600 series I'd personally just grab a Bottle Head Crack and call it a day, I'm sure you'd build one without much sweat. When my LCD-2 pre fazor eventually die, and they will because let's face it; they are made from Audeze - I may consider another Crack.
I'm too much of a sucker for solid state bass to go tube or even hybrid. Saying that one of the best combinations I've found so far with the 600s is an O2 but with OPA1612 in the gain stage and LMH6643 buffers like the fiio x5 - even at 5v rails and with the LMH not really designed for audio you get a really nice open detailed sound but the bass doesn't extend as much as I'd like.
Regarding pads - one thing I've found with my 600s even wearing glasses really detracts from the performance even with the pads only slightly deformed to accommodate them - will have to sort myself out some contacts sometime so I can enjoy them more generally.
Regarding pads - one thing I've found with my 600s even wearing glasses really detracts from the performance even with the pads only slightly deformed to accommodate them - will have to sort myself out some contacts sometime so I can enjoy them more generally.
Yeah SS generally has a cleaner more potent bass. I think the reason I've kept my Chord Mojo so long minus it's convenience is because extended at both ends and had a slight bloom to the sound with great thump!
The Crack plus HD650 has really magical mids but it's always nice to have that sub bass.
By the way listen to The Sound Of Silence by Disturbed OMG it sounds so good on the LCD-2/HD650 and I imagine 600 the vocals just haunt your head.
The Crack plus HD650 has really magical mids but it's always nice to have that sub bass.
By the way listen to The Sound Of Silence by Disturbed OMG it sounds so good on the LCD-2/HD650 and I imagine 600 the vocals just haunt your head.
I have a new pair of these HD650s arriving tomorrow.
I currently have Goldring DR-150s and a FIIO E10K. I do not plan on upgrading the E10K.
The OP states that certain headphones like AKG K712 will sound better on lower end gear. Is the E10K sufficient to make the HD650s sound good? Or am I better off returning them and getting the AKGs?
I currently have Goldring DR-150s and a FIIO E10K. I do not plan on upgrading the E10K.
The OP states that certain headphones like AKG K712 will sound better on lower end gear. Is the E10K sufficient to make the HD650s sound good? Or am I better off returning them and getting the AKGs?
E10K will do a fine job. Sure you can always do better, but that probably involves spending at least twice as much money. I've got a FiiO X1, and that does a good job with my HD600's, and that has less power and less voltage swing than the E10K.
Soldato
The problem is that for the most part, cheap amps are designed to be used with low impedance, efficient headphones and neither the HD650 nor the AKG K7** series fall in this category.
The HD650s like a strong voltage swing to sound their best, which is something tube amps are good at, while AKG K7** series need a lot of current to get their voice coils oscillating nicely. By comparison, my Sony MDR-1A are both efficient and low impedance, so don't require such a powerful feed.
Having said that, the E10K is quite a little powerhouse of an amp considering it's size. FiiO gave the amp a sizeable boost when they upgraded the E10 to the E10K and while the older version would have struggled with either headphone, the E10K powers them just fine. Does it sound as good as a Schiit stack (Modi 2 & Magni 2 or Vali 2)? No it doesn't but they do cost more than three times as much as the little E10K but the FiiO still manages a creditable job.
I'm currently sitting here with my HD650s plugged into my E10K and the pairing sounds just fine to me, you have to select high gain to get the voltage swing and the sound is all the better for it, the sound is quite anaemic on low gain with the volume cranked. Hit the high gain switch and the bass and lower mids become stronger and the sound becomes nicely rounded.
The HD650s like a strong voltage swing to sound their best, which is something tube amps are good at, while AKG K7** series need a lot of current to get their voice coils oscillating nicely. By comparison, my Sony MDR-1A are both efficient and low impedance, so don't require such a powerful feed.
Having said that, the E10K is quite a little powerhouse of an amp considering it's size. FiiO gave the amp a sizeable boost when they upgraded the E10 to the E10K and while the older version would have struggled with either headphone, the E10K powers them just fine. Does it sound as good as a Schiit stack (Modi 2 & Magni 2 or Vali 2)? No it doesn't but they do cost more than three times as much as the little E10K but the FiiO still manages a creditable job.
I'm currently sitting here with my HD650s plugged into my E10K and the pairing sounds just fine to me, you have to select high gain to get the voltage swing and the sound is all the better for it, the sound is quite anaemic on low gain with the volume cranked. Hit the high gain switch and the bass and lower mids become stronger and the sound becomes nicely rounded.
The K712 IMO will sound better on the Fiio gear in terms of dynamics, clarity. The 650 really come to life on amps like the Bottle Head Crack, Valhalla2 and even the Little Dot offerings like the MK3 and even better on the Zana and Icon HP2.
The 650's are not the cleanest headphones but their resolution and detail retrival is only rivaled by the HD800 IMO! They have the best tonal balance, smoothest treble and Cohesiveness that can only be rivaled by an older LCD-2 and bats of you are lucky and get a good one. If you plan to upgrade your gear in the future you 650 will reward you. Out of the Fiio gear you will drive them fine but if you want to see what they really can do take your 650 to an audio store and demo some of their high end amps and you will hear a headphone that will put most expensive headphones to shame.
Soldato
Ryan,
My Asus STX stopped working
and im using the Fiio E10K with my HD600, although its doing a good job i know the HD600 deserves more.Im looking to get an amp and dac on the cheap due to not having much spare cash. Second hand would be ideal really
Would you rather go Schiit Stack, or SMSL Sanskrit DAC and Little Dot MkII? Also seen an O2 stack for £140 used.
Both Similar prices. I think The Vali 2 is a little too much for me. Although there is a Vali 1 ending on the acution site in an hour.
Is the Vali1 decent?
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If you want to experiment with tubes on a budget the MKII is a good amp -I thought it was pretty close to the MKIII with the right tubes. The Vali is more resolving sounds a little more high end than the MKII overall. The Vali has a slight aggressiveness to its treble but not harsh, slight lag to its vocals giving a haunting quality. MKII is inherently dryer, can really sound fantastic with the right tubes like the M8161, the vocals were outstanding and is one my fav parings for vocals to date.
If you are the adventurous type, go with the MKII
If you are a plug on and play, go Vali.
If you are the adventurous type, go with the MKII
If you are a plug on and play, go Vali.
Soldato
Ryan,
My Asus STX stopped working
Im looking to get an amp and dac on the cheap due to not having much spare cash. Second hand would be ideal really
Would you rather go Schiit Stack, or SMSL Sanskrit DAC and Little Dot MkII? Also seen an O2 stack for £140 used.
Both Similar prices. I think The Vali 2 is a little too much for me. Although there is a Vali 1 ending on the acution site in an hour.
Is the Vali1 decent?
I went from a Xonar Xense (similar to the STX iirc) to a Schiit Modi and Vali and it sounds amazing.
https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=4218
Is this a decent upgrade to the little dot MK 2 ?
Is this a decent upgrade to the little dot MK 2 ?
Soldato
Well I ended up getting another pair of 650's since I sold my first pair and I've been using some Fidellio X2's for a few weeks now and honestly I can't tell the difference between the headphones, The X2's have a bit better bass but that's it.
Listen to the 650 for a week then switch back to the X2. Their signatures will become more obvious. You will notice the large resolution gap between the two. Sometimes many struggle with A B comparisons -if I don't have my reference tracks on hand I'd struggle to give a good explanation of differences as our ears need time to adjust and our brains to understand the sound signatures.
Try this, listen to Hotel California and don't pay attention to the main cues; instead listen to the subtle cues ones you normally wouldn't pay attention to and then switch headphones...I bet they wouldn't be audible on the X2 or not as obvious.
Try this, listen to Hotel California and don't pay attention to the main cues; instead listen to the subtle cues ones you normally wouldn't pay attention to and then switch headphones...I bet they wouldn't be audible on the X2 or not as obvious.
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Soldato
I've noticed tiny tiny differences in music, Not better just different, As I've been using the 650's for nearly a week now but the X2's have much better bass to my ears and in games I much prefer the sound of the X2's, I'll keep the 650's for when I'm in the mood for classical music
