Sherlock - Series 2 - BBC

I don't quite understand why people are complaining about the ending. You are watching a show about a man who can supposedly pluck evidence out of the air from 20 metres away and based on some nondescript crumbs on someones blazer cuffs.

The whole episode was supposed to relate to Moriarty getting at Holmes and making him go a bit nuts. Everything was designed to lead Sherlock along at break neck speed to exactly the point at the end where he had to jump.

DM, you don't seem to 'get' the character of Holmes at all. He is not normal and not rational in a lot of cases. He does things that are monumentally stupid at times due to his arrogance so going up on the roof at the end is not at all surprising. Also, he knows that Moriarty is rather clever and calling 2 of the people that are supposedly going to be assasinated wouldn't save them.

I thought the computer code bit was a little silly but using that as a basis for disliking the episode is just stupid. I know that it might make some people feel smart to pick holes in this sort of program but lets not be silly. I could pick holes in every show ever shown if I looked hard enough; that doesn't make them bad shows.

I thought the episode was great and the bit at the end showing Sherlock didn't take anything away from it. We knew that he wasn't dead so what difference does it make if they actually show him or not.
 
This a TV show about a sociopath detective. If you haven't learned to suspend your disbelief by now then you really don't get TV.
 
fez said:
I don't quite understand why people are complaining about the ending. You are watching a show about a man who can supposedly pluck evidence out of the air from 20 metres away and based on some nondescript crumbs on someones blazer cuffs.

The whole episode was supposed to relate to Moriarty getting at Holmes and making him go a bit nuts. Everything was designed to lead Sherlock along at break neck speed to exactly the point at the end where he had to jump.

DM, you don't seem to 'get' the character of Holmes at all. He is not normal and not rational in a lot of cases. He does things that are monumentally stupid at times due to his arrogance so going up on the roof at the end is not at all surprising. Also, he knows that Moriarty is rather clever and calling 2 of the people that are supposedly going to be assasinated wouldn't save them.

I thought the computer code bit was a little silly but using that as a basis for disliking the episode is just stupid. I know that it might make some people feel smart to pick holes in this sort of program but lets not be silly. I could pick holes in every show ever shown if I looked hard enough; that doesn't make them bad shows.

I thought the episode was great and the bit at the end showing Sherlock didn't take anything away from it. We knew that he wasn't dead so what difference does it make if they actually show him or not.
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What, I said I disliked the episode because EVERYTHING was stupid, not one thing, that was one of the MANY things I mentioned that was incredibly stupid. In fact I'm fairly sure I said the stupidest thing was the reporter believing an actor who, after months/years of storys about Sherlock, couldn't sell his story rather than commit an act of treason and hoped Sherlock got him out of it......... and he did this for money. He then sells his story to the reporter, something he could have done before any way, negating the need to partake in the worst crime in the UK for decades and risk being sent away for life.

Its not silly, its not belief suspending, its lazy lazy writing nothing more or less. Going up on the roof had nothing to do with arrogance, he could have met him anywhere, it was part of the ridiculously stupid story, it was pretty much the end of the stupid story that wouldn't have happened if the story wasn't so epically stupid start to finish.

The whole point of Sherlock is he's intelligent and the stories are intelligent, and the problem was, nothing in this episode was intelligent. Hell, why would the assassins one, believe Moriaty, two, think Sherlock would magically give them the code, three, believe some random magic tiny piece of code could break in anyway and four, let themselves be killed, to save Sherlock..... so they can get the code.

Think about that again.... they save Sherlock, because he supposedly has the code(that is ridiculous), KNOWING THEY WILL BE KILLED......... so therefore won't get the code.

Now hands up, you want the code, but you know saving Sherlock will get you instantly killed..... so do you die and not have the code, or live and not have the code and make money other ways. It's so far past lazy and stupid.

Woody__ said:
This a TV show about a sociopath detective. If you haven't learned to suspend your disbelief by now then you really don't get TV.
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People need to see the difference between believing something like SHerlock is that clever...... which you are asked to believe is possible, then having an episode that then asks you to believe he and Moriarty are both stupid as hell..... because that is what this episode asks you to believe. These two opposing "beliefs" contradict each other, hence the episode makes no sense and is not good in any way at all.

Its like a Star Wars film where you are watching them fly around in space...... while the main characters talk about how space travel is impossible..... it would just be nonsense.
 
I will say that I wish they had stayed closer to the original story "The Final Problem" and had made the Holmes and Moriarty rivalry much more like the story as well. The just of the original story is that Holmes is starting to thwart Moriartys plans at every turn. Its not a game for Moriarty and he most certainly isn't a lunatic. Holmes is given a firm but polite warning to keep out of Moriartys affairs or there will be consequences. Obviously he doesn't and it leads to the confrontation at the Reichenbach Falls.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
In fact I'm fairly sure I said the stupidest thing was the reporter believing an actor who, after months/years of storys about Sherlock, couldn't sell his story rather than commit an act of treason and hoped Sherlock got him out of it......... and he did this for money.

He then sells his story to the reporter, something he could have done before any way, negating the need to partake in the worst crime in the UK for decades and risk being sent away for life.
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Come on, have a little think about it at least. Sherlocks story is that this petrified man in the reporters apartment is a master criminal who is playing everyone for a chump. Moriarty's story is that he is an actor with plenty of evidence to back it up, he is scared witless by Sherlock and has just been acquitted of a crime that seemed to hinge on Sherlock's expert testimony which ultimately released him. The reporter has already been insulted and belittled by Sherlock a few times and wants to get him back.

Yeah, thats a real stretch to think that she would believe Moriarty.

drunkenmaster said:
The whole point of Sherlock is he's intelligent and the stories are intelligent, and the problem was, nothing in this episode was intelligent. Hell, why would the assassins one, believe Moriaty, two, think Sherlock would magically give them the code, three, believe some random magic tiny piece of code could break in anyway and four, let themselves be killed, to save Sherlock..... so they can get the code.

Think about that again.... they save Sherlock, because he supposedly has the code(that is ridiculous), KNOWING THEY WILL BE KILLED......... so therefore won't get the code.

Now hands up, you want the code, but you know saving Sherlock will get you instantly killed..... so do you die and not have the code, or live and not have the code and make money other ways. It's so far past lazy and stupid.
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Christ you are a nightmare. You seem to ignore the quite simple fact that all the characters in films and t.v are not supposed to be privy to all of the plot and information.

The assassins are told that Sherlock has the code for the computer program. Moriarty is a criminal for hire, who by all accounts is rather good at it so I would be a little surprised if the assassins had any concerns that what he was saying was true. They see Sherlock about to be killed 2 foot away from them and they will try and stop it from happening. They have no idea what the other assassins are doing and the fact that they are all after him means that they know there must be a certain risk of being killed themselves.

They are unlikely to get the information that they want if Sherlock is dead or if they don't do anything but sit in their room for fear of being killed.

Try not to mistake your lack of creativity and ability to use logic as the writers lack of effort or stupidity.
 
drunkenmaster said:
People need to see the difference between believing something like SHerlock is that clever...... which you are asked to believe is possible, then having an episode that then asks you to believe he and Moriarty are both stupid as hell..... because that is what this episode asks you to believe. These two opposing "beliefs" contradict each other, hence the episode makes no sense and is not good in any way at all.

Its like a Star Wars film where you are watching them fly around in space...... while the main characters talk about how space travel is impossible..... it would just be nonsense.
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In my view going to the hospital roof is analogous with the actual final confrontation at the Richenbach Falls as shown in the novel. A bit of intertextuality with the source material. As far as I'm aware there's no waterfalls in London...

I would reply to you more fully but fez has it spot on.
 
Well personally I don't really care if there are plot holes or not, I like to be entertained by a program or film and for me this series has certainly delivered.
Cumberbatch and Freeman I though were excellent and had great chemistry throughout, and the actor playing Moriarty hammed it up beautifully

I did see the twist coming at the end as Sherlock's supposed body was shown, but it still didn't ruin my overrall enjoyment

I very much look foward to series 3.
 
Great episode, thoroughly enjoyed it :D

But there was no way a such a short piece of binary could crack every computer code in existence...
 
Judgeneo said:
Great episode, thoroughly enjoyed it :D

But there was no way a such a short piece of binary could crack every computer code in existence...
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Isn't that dismissed in the show?

I enjoyed the episode. Looking forward to the next season!
 
Was a really good episode.

No idea how they're going to explain it. Maybe because Watson was dazed Sherlock threw Moriarty off but he only saw what he was expecting to see (like on the last episode).
 
I personally think that Holmes dosed Watson somehow with the drug from the previous episode and along with the phone call influencing him Watson saw what he wanted. Theoretically the favour he asked of Molly could have extended so far as to being in the ambulance picking him up or anything like that, he would know the rough time he would be 'jumping' as he figured out he needed to die to solve it all when he saw Molly. Obviously they are going to have to come up with a damn clever way to explain it to cover every possible hole!

I enjoyed the episode and the series as a whole. First ep 9/10, second 6/10 and this 8/10.
 
Richeh said:
I personally think that Holmes dosed Watson somehow with the drug from the previous episode and along with the phone call influencing him Watson saw what he wanted. Theoretically the favour he asked of Molly could have extended so far as to being in the ambulance picking him up or anything like that, he would know the rough time he would be 'jumping' as he figured out he needed to die to solve it all when he saw Molly. Obviously they are going to have to come up with a damn clever way to explain it to cover every possible hole!

I enjoyed the episode and the series as a whole. First ep 9/10, second 6/10 and this 8/10.
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Agreed on the ratings apart from the last episode. I would give that a 9 too!

Im not sure about the timescale but the ambulance seemed to get there about 30 seconds after he fell which is a bit suspect. I would think that everyone around the body would need to be dosed up with the hallucinogen as well. They have all seen lots of pictures on the news and in the papers of Holmes so it would be very risky to only dose Watson.
 
fez said:
Agreed on the ratings apart from the last episode. I would give that a 9 too!

Im not sure about the timescale but the ambulance seemed to get there about 30 seconds after he fell which is a bit suspect. I would think that everyone around the body would need to be dosed up with the hallucinogen as well. They have all seen lots of pictures on the news and in the papers of Holmes so it would be very risky to only dose Watson.
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He was on the roof of a hospital...
 
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