Shotguns: Show us your clay / game / zombie bashers

Oh, I went to Fauxdegla in Wales last week-end. Up in the hills, nice ground, VERY cheap too, £20/100. Excellent facilities, and the sporting birds were quite interesting!
 
Did my very first 25/25 at Compak at A.C Sporting (near west london) -- at BL****DY last! I've been doing 23s and the odd 24th and that for a while, but this time I nailed it. I also did 19 on the FITASC they have there, where all the birds are /awesome/ really. I was quite chuffed on this one, as 2 of the hardest birds I've ever shot comes as a SIM, and I nailed these, twice.
... And then I tanked on some much easier ones, but hell, it's progress :-)

I took a coach last week, did a session last friday with him at Mid Wales, and shot 500 clays (!) on the day. Basically he said my shooting was fine, it's just my concentration that flutters a bit. He 'tested' me by having me shoot birds from one stand from the /other/ stand, 40 yards away, boy that was fun! Then he took a particular crosser and had me shoot it... then move 20yards back, and shoot it again. I *still* managed a couple at ~100y but it's indeed a pretty good confidence booster.

I've decided to go pretty serious this year. I'm not on CPSA right now, I'm still 'practicing' but I /think/ I could perhaps do a 90 on a CPSA shoot this year (Churchill or AGL, as they are nearby).. We'll see how that go. I like giving me a though target, helps with focus!
 
Got 33 out of 50 today. Could have done better, I dropped a few easy ones which I shouldn't have. I've recently swapped to 21g cartridges, I think I much prefer them to 28g. I'm able to get the same score, I can still get high/far clays. I'm sure the lower recoil makes it easier to get on the second clay too...

Lesson learnt from last week though, do not shoot hungover, it does not help the score whatsoever!
 
There is nothing wrong with 21g - I am a Semi shooter which makes it hard on DTL so got myself a old trap gun - did 25-25 at Mid Wales with them - Only thing I would say is go up a choke size as there is less lead but I found them quicker than 28g Eley firsts. If you can get it out of your mind there is less lead then they are fine.

Catton Hall today - see if I pack up shooting or not. Age does not help one little bit.
 
Not packing shooting up yet - Surprised myself today with a 74 - so many hit first two pairs then miss one in next and last.

I do feel better and so glad I went.
 
That's maintained lead, pretty much useless unless you know the targets very well (or have a lot of experience). I don't shoot these *at all* like that (I use the pull away method). After quit ea few of them, I *can* do maintained lead on them, but I never shoot them as regularly as with the pull away (which works for pretty much any clay)
 
One said:
Got 33 out of 50 today. Could have done better, I dropped a few easy ones which I shouldn't have. I've recently swapped to 21g cartridges, I think I much prefer them to 28g. I'm able to get the same score, I can still get high/far clays. I'm sure the lower recoil makes it easier to get on the second clay too...

Lesson learnt from last week though, do not shoot hungover, it does not help the score whatsoever!
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Try the CompX 28g -- they are nearly as light as a 21g really. i primarily shoot these (they are cheap too!). And yes, I also shoot the CompX 21g my wife shoots and there's no problem breaking long ones. You might be at a disadvantage on say, long-edge-on perhaps, but for most of them, they work pretty well and you can shoot a slab without any effect on the shoulder!
 
BusError said:
That's maintained lead, pretty much useless unless you know the targets very well (or have a lot of experience). I don't shoot these *at all* like that (I use the pull away method). After quit ea few of them, I *can* do maintained lead on them, but I never shoot them as regularly as with the pull away (which works for pretty much any clay)
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I don't think this is true, or at least, both sides of the argument are opinion and there is not a right way. I'm currently reading a book called 'Move, mount, shoot' by John Bidwell (a former champion). He describes maintained lead as the best method for very many reasons. One is that it utilizes the brains natural ability to calculate the speed and route of the clay put the gun in place keep momentum and shoot. Follow through lends itself to shooting behind, and pull-away makes it very easy to obscure your view of the clay if it drops, whereas with maintained lead you can see the clay constantly. You can see if it slows, or if it drops. He says most newcomers given no tuition will typically revert to a maintained lead style and do 'okay' off the bat.

He also says however, use what works for you, and that different targets might make you more comfortable with a different method, but if you're struggling use it as an opportunity to try a new method which will take several goes before you get used to the new one. However those several goes giving the new method a go are no different to the several goes you'll take missing with your current method.

I use maintained lead for pretty much all targets except teals.

I personally wouldn't discount any method as easy or hard. I bet there is a champion shooter to give merit to every conceivable style. There's even a champion over in America which shoot with one eye shut. Mention shooting one eyed on a UK ground and they'll be plenty of people scoff and say you won't do well without both eyes open.

I'll have a look for those CompX 28s and see what they're like.
 
Got an FEO coming out tomorrow for my FAC application with SGC tagged on. If it all goes well anyone know how long it roughly takes from then? I know it varies from county to county but is that the longest wait over with?
 
I'm going to apply for an FAC pretty soon too -- with a bit of luck mid wales is still reasonably quick. Had my SGC in 12 weeks, which is ok really.
 
One said:
I don't think this is true, or at least, both sides of the argument are opinion and there is not a right way. I'm currently reading a book called 'Move, mount, shoot' by John Bidwell (a former champion). He describes maintained lead as the best method for very many reasons. One is that it utilizes the brains natural ability to calculate the speed and route of the clay put the gun in place keep momentum and shoot. Follow through lends itself to shooting behind, and pull-away makes it very easy to obscure your view of the clay if it drops, whereas with maintained lead you can see the clay constantly. You can see if it slows, or if it drops. He says most newcomers given no tuition will typically revert to a maintained lead style and do 'okay' off the bat.

He also says however, use what works for you, and that different targets might make you more comfortable with a different method, but if you're struggling use it as an opportunity to try a new method which will take several goes before you get used to the new one. However those several goes giving the new method a go are no different to the several goes you'll take missing with your current method.

I use maintained lead for pretty much all targets except teals.

I personally wouldn't discount any method as easy or hard. I bet there is a champion shooter to give merit to every conceivable style. There's even a champion over in America which shoot with one eye shut. Mention shooting one eyed on a UK ground and they'll be plenty of people scoff and say you won't do well without both eyes open.

I'll have a look for those CompX 28s and see what they're like.
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Well, my *natural* instinctive shooting was like everyone else's -- maintained lead -- and I agree it 'works' however you hit a wall when trying the really long targets. Like a 50 yard battue as you can get on fitasc. No amount of maintained lead will help you there. I was very, very frustrated when I discovered that as I thought I was doing 'ok' shooting wise, and I couldn't hit a barn door at 40+ yards. Even the very long flat crossers were a problem.

And, I narrowed it down to... maintained lead. On very long birds, if you do maintained lead, your gun barely moves, therefore you end up 'rifling' or aiming the gun, with near zero gun speed... therefore any movement or twitch when you pull the trigger gets amplified and very soon even the large pattern no longer helps you and you miss.. that is, even if you had the lead right -- for me there is too much time to 'think' and thinking is.. bad!

When I discovered the pull away method, I thought it was plain magic. i started hitting these long battues, and I've started to use that method on pretty much everything else. Basically that's also how I hit driven birds anyway (pick the line behind the bird, pull thru and shoot without seeing the bird). My shooting improved significantly since i've switched to the pull away method.
Pretty much everytime I miss now, is when I get a bit 'confident' and think I know where the bird is and revert to maintained lead. It just won't work for me at this stage of my shooting, it's just too easy to screw up.

I also tried the Bidwell method (a little bit, to be honest), but the /key/ to that method is /not to lead the bird/ really, so it's almost like pull away save that your gun moves to the shooting point as you mount, so you get the 'gun speed' from that movement. If you hesitate or wobble as you mount, you're done for! Again, you need to be pretty steady with your gun mount to get it perfectly right all the time. With the 'pull away' method, I get a chance to wobble the mount a bit, and correct it, then pull the line thru the bird.

The reason that gun speed is important is that you 'manufactured' gun movement, and gun movement is good because the inertia you put into the gun will buffer any twitching you migth get. That's also why people want/need longer, heavier guns and swear they shoot better. The 'longer barrels' don't help that much, but the weight does. You can achieve the same with just a bit more inertia in the gun.

BTW, I'm just making things up here, I'm no champion, just an engineer who likes overthinking stuff ;-)
 
Interesting thoughts. I have struggled using maintained lead on distant crossers. I'll give your method a go. How is it any easier though to 'pull-away'? You're aiming and following the target, you start to pull away, but when do you pull the trigger? That seems as tricky as figuring out how much lead to maintain when you use maintained lead?

Have you ever had formal tuition? I'm quite tempted to book a day off work and get a lesson. It's quite expensive though...
 
One said:
Interesting thoughts. I have struggled using maintained lead on distant crossers. I'll give your method a go. How is it any easier though to 'pull-away'? You're aiming and following the target, you start to pull away, but when do you pull the trigger? That seems as tricky as figuring out how much lead to maintain when you use maintained lead?

Have you ever had formal tuition? I'm quite tempted to book a day off work and get a lesson. It's quite expensive though...
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The pull away is more based on timing (almost) than pure 'lead' bizarelly. It's kind of like driven when you lose sight of the clay, but shoot 'blind' and break it.
+ have the gun ready on your 'pickup point'. The place you want to 'meet' the clay
+ Watch for the clay, either watching near the trap, or by defocussing your eyes and waiting for moment in your peripheral vision (that what I do)
+ As soon as you see the clay, mount the gun, at which point the clay is just past your gun.
+ Pick a 'line' that you are going to pull thru it. Don't 'loop' the gun, pick a real line, even if it's a looper. If it's a looper, just pick a line that intersect it from underneath, don't go 'for' the clay.
+ pull the gun thru in one movement and 'toss' the pellets on the line in front of the clay. the 'where' bizarrely is almost natural; don't thing about it, just make sure you push the gun thru on that line and shoot in one smooth move.
+ Key thing is gun speed, and timing. Oh and trust, it *does* work pretty amazingly, but if you hesitate, it won't.

I had ONE lesson on that method, with a pretty amazing guy at A.C Sporting (near west london shooting school); lessons are part of the package when you are a member. That's the guy who taught me how to do that, and also taught me to move my shoulders up/down depending on the clay trajectory. That is also pretty amazing as a trick.
 
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