Poll: Should Gary McKinnon be extradited to the US for hacking?

[Tefal]

This post makes all your posturing in previous posts redundant.

It's not posturing it's political fact. if he's worth more to us than the loss of diplomatic face keep him, if he's not **** him, shouldn't have broke the law.

If you're exceptional the law rarely applies.

Of course he dosent deserve to be deported and given 70 years, its crazy to suggest such a thing. The US originally offered him a 3-4 year sentence if he flew there to turn himself in, but refused to put it in writing, this is much more in line with a reasonable punishment.

Well there you are then he was offered sensible punishment, he refued called it upon himself really.

 

[Mik3]

So justice is delivered depending how worthwhile you are?

 

[Tefal]

So justice is delivered depending how worthwhile you are?

Not justice no, punishment yes, reality rarely serves the former.

The asylums granted to people who committed what are truly atrocities and if justice was served, even me, who disagrees with the death sentence, would have been tourtured to death if I'd had my way, after the war prove this.

 

[Metalface Mark]

It's not posturing it's political fact. if he's worth more to us than the loss of diplomatic face keep him, if he's not **** him, shouldn't have broke the law.

If you're exceptional the law rarely applies.



Well there you are then he was offered sensible punishment, he refued called it upon himself really.

Its not political fact at all, you are using words you dont even know the meaning off.

Its clear you dont really know anything about the case other than what people have posted, i suggest you read up on it before coming back with more of your skewed views.

http://freegary.org.uk/

 

[Tefal]

Its not political fact at all, you are using words you dont even know the meaning off.

Name one?

Its clear you dont really know anything about the case other than what people have posted, i suggest you read up on it before coming back with more of your skewed views.

I know what he did, I roughly know the law (anyone who claims to know the intricacies should back that up with a degree + job).

But more importantly I know history, people are judged soley on thier abilty to give others an advantage.

people oft forget the cheapest thing on this planet is human life.

http://freegary.org.uk/

Nice unbiased source there


Are you going to tell me now that the amnesties given to Unit 731 where not because of what they knew and what they where capable of?

Justice does not exist in this world, the best you can hope to achieve is to manipulate the rules to your own ends, same as everyone.

 

[Mr-White]

He deserves to be tried and he knows that what he's fighting for is a fair trial. The US government are making an example of him because he embarrassed them by showing all the flaws in their system. The only reason he managed to wander around inside their systems was they never changed any of the default passwords and what made it funnier was he was doing it on dial up.

MW

 

[semi-pro waster]

Why shouldn't he be deported?

The simplest argument here is that he shouldn't be deported because he is being deported under legislation designed to deport terrorists - there's been no suggestion I know of that he was acting as a terrorist. This is akin to function creep but in a judicial setting which is much worse - see ID cards in the second World War for another example of people lumping new functions onto something that was never designed for it.

:/

No it isn't.


It's what the law is, he knew it he still did it.


The punishment is so harsh so as to deter people from bothering. Hacking databases containing info that puts lives at risk should be punished severely.

I'm not entirely sure he knew the punishment was quite so harsh although even if he did it seems unlikely to have stopped him.

 

[Tefal]

The simplest argument here is that he shouldn't be deported because he is being deported under legislation designed to deport terrorists - there's been no suggestion I know of that he was acting as a terrorist. This is akin to function creep but in a judicial setting which is much worse - see ID cards in the second World War for another example of people lumping new functions onto something that was never designed for it.

True enough, and possibly a good reason to keep him if his lawyers (or ours ) can successfully wrangle that, unfortunately there is the problem that he could well have been doing it for other motives but failed, which is what i believe the Americans will be able to argue.

the fact this involves national security, which has historically been always a highly restricted ara, makes it much more difficult.

You can bet our government would act the same way as the yanks, just tobe sure that what we caught him for is all that he actually found. Plus we have to act that in the future an American may do the samme and we'd want extradition so we could "prove" that's lll they found. I doubt him or oters like him will acually have a normal scentance there will undoubtably be undesirable additions to his scentance, as there would be here.

 

[fiveub]

So what did he actually do wrong? - 70 years... For that. Yet people who kill other people dead on the spot just go in prison for a couple of years, or released early because of prisons being full.

Woodhill Prision (strongest prison in the UK), is full of gyms, football pitches, TV, tennis courts, game consoles, snooker rooms, canteen, and lots more of other luxury items. Yeah, they may be locked away from the outside world... But there are people who live worst off.

The whole system is a joke.

 

[Tefal]

He deserves to be tried and he knows that what he's fighting for is a fair trial. The US government are making an example of him because he embarrassed them by showing all the flaws in their system. The only reason he managed to wander around inside their systems was they never changed any of the default passwords and what made it funnier was he was doing it on dial up.

MW

One of the worst things you can do is publication humiliate a government, because they will seek retribution and it will be far greater than what youcan do to them.

But hey, I'm sure you learnt that from CN eh whitey?

 

[Tefal]

So what did he actually do wrong? - 70 years... For that. Yet people who kill other people dead on the spot just go in prison for a couple of years, or released early because of prisons being full.

Woodhill Prision (strongest prison in the UK), is full of gyms, football pitches, TV, tennis courts, game consoles, snooker rooms, canteen, and lots more of other luxury items. Yeah, they may be locked away from the outside world... But there are people who live worst off.

The whole system is a joke.

You understand that the Americans system is much harser than ours, thier prisons are not full, they don't have foot ball pitches, and people who kill there get life (if possible) or death (and they have a higher murder rate but thats a far more complex subect that can hardly be reasoned here) right?

 

[JBuk]

Will stop a lot of people bothering, as most freelancers have nothing to gain from it except curiosity.

surely feeding their curiosity is really the only thing that most of them have to gain anyways? apart from trying to gain some kind of hacker respect like in the movies

anyways it will never stop a lot of people, just like Capital punishment hasn't stopped a lot of murders

 

[Mik3]

the fact this involves national security, which has historically been always a highly restricted ara, makes it much more difficult.

'national security' the age old cry of the oppressor.

 

[fiveub]

You understand that the Americans system is much harser than ours, thier prisons are not full, they don't have foot ball pitches, and people who kill there get life (if possible) or death (and they have a higher murder rate but thats a far more complex subect that can hardly be reasoned here) right?

I am not comparing nations, I am comparing everything that humans do which is wrong is put in the wrong categories in the one nation I live in. Which is England.

 

[Tefal]

surely feeding their curiosity is really the only thing that most of them have to gain anyways? apart from trying to gain some kind of hacker respect like in the movies

anyways it will never stop a lot of people, just like Capital punishment hasn't stopped a lot of murders

Murder is slightly more phycologicaly involved than curiosity, tbh I'd rather not know if aliens exist than spend 70 years in prison, but of i wanted someone dead the sentence wouldn't affect my decision.

'national security' the age old cry of the oppressor.

Not really, it's the age old cry of the defender, the needs of the masses outweigh the needs(or in tis case wants) of the few.

Do you consider the secrecy bout our decades old nuclear devices oppression upon the rest of the world?

 

[semi-pro waster]

True enough, and possibly a good reason to keep him if his lawyers (or ours ) can successfully wrangle that, unfortunately there is the problem that he could well have been doing it for other motives but failed, which is what i believe the Americans will be able to argue.

I'm sure they would now if necessary but they'd be changing the main thrust of their argument - not exactly a problem I'll admit but it still sticks in my craw somewhat.

the fact this involves national security, which has historically been always a highly restricted ara, makes it much more difficult.

You can bet our government would act the same way as the yanks, just tobe sure that what we caught him for is all that he actually found. Plus we have to act that in the future an American may do the samme and we'd want extradition so we could "prove" that's lll they found. I doubt him or oters like him will acually have a normal scentance there will undoubtably be undesirable additions to his scentance, as there would be here.

Our Government might well wish to have an American citizen tried here for similar offences should they exist but America isn't so big on reciprocity or allowing its citizens to be tried by other nations. Odd that American soldiers won't be tried by any other country generally and it doesn't formally acknowledge the authority of the International Criminal Court over crimes committed yet would demand the handover of other nations citizens. This doesn't have anything too much to do with the instant case, it's just a general whinge.

 

[Tefal]

I am not comparing nations, I am comparing everything that humans do which is wrong is put in the wrong categories in the one nation I live in. Which is England.

yah but he;s not being tried by England (I'm not even going to get into the fact you consider England to be the UK at his point), so your argument about British prisons is merely you trying to foist your own ends upon an unrelated case.

By your argument you should support his deportation and harsh punishment.

 

[Tefal]

I'm sure they would now if necessary but they'd be changing the main thrust of their argument - not exactly a problem I'll admit but it still sticks in my craw somewhat.

Believe me i agree however I prefer to argue from a real world perspective, despite how distasteful it may be.

Our Government might well wish to have an American citizen tried here for similar offences should they exist but America isn't so big on reciprocity or allowing its citizens to be tried by other nations. Odd that American soldiers won't be tried by any other country generally and it doesn't formally acknowledge the authority of the International Criminal Court over crimes committed yet would demand the handover of other nations citizens. This doesn't have anything too much to do with the instant case, it's just a general whinge.

Again I agree (and have over the last few days have come to respect your arguments much more than most) but sadly America in reality has much more power, and it's better to bed the devil than a daemon.

 

[Mr-White]

so what punishment would fit his crime ?

MW

 

[Mik3]

Not really, it's the age old cry of the defender, the needs of the masses outweigh the needs(or in tis case wants) of the few.

Do you consider the secrecy bout our decades old nuclear devices oppression upon the rest of the world?

No I don't.

But to say he's a threat to the US national security is laughable, if you would read the case you realise he had no malicious intent, he even warned them of connections from China and Russia.