Should Gordon call an election this year?

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rypt said:
Spending is something that is required right now in order to sustain the economy, though a better alternative would be to simply setup a government bank (hang on, we have that already with Northern Rock) and out compete the main banks by offering to lend people money.
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Any reason why you think destroying the banking sector by setting up a government monopoly would be a good thing for the long term economy?
 
manveruppd said:
Well, all my economist friends tell me you gotta spend your way through a recession. Even the Americans now have a left-wing President who's planning to spend billions getting their economy back on track, so if the U.K. votes in a Conservative government in the middle of a recession you'll be officially the most arse-backwards nation on the globe! :p
Gordon Brown is a boring, uncharismatic leader, and he probably shares a lot of the blame for causing the current economic crisis, but the measures he's taken to deal with it have been dynamic, decisive, and probably cushioned the blow for a lot of people who would've lost their jobs/savings otherwise. He's not great but he's the best you've got right now.
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Yes, the only way out is getting money circulating around the economy again, but no one is going to spend when they are at risk of losing their job. Everything Labour have done and are doing is having no effect on public spending and Just creating more and more national debt. The VAT cut has been a complete waste of £12bn, the head of major stores have said it has not made one blind bit of difference, just like I said it wouldn't when it was announced :cool:
 
Voltar said:
It is pretty sad how in this country we have been manipulated into not knowing what's going on in the running of our own country for which WE elect our representatives. I can't believe more people aren't outraged and disillusioned by what is happening in our politics: no referendum on Europe (the Lisbon treaty et al) and no general election for a new leader, allowing Gordon through the back door.
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In British politics you vote for the party, not it's leader.

And yes, no referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was criminal. What can we do about it?
 
rypt said:
Our debt, even after all this new spending, will still be less than current French and German levels (we are currently at 40% of GDP, both of them are in the 60s).
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Nonsense. Only in Labours world of lies is our national debt at 40%.

Roughly 40% of our economy was being generated by imaginary money because of the lax regulation these clowns took of the financial sector. And now that has fallen out we're screwed.

Quite how Brown still has anything resembling a good reputation I don't know.

What did Gordon Brown do before selling off our Gold reserves? He advertised he was going to do so, thereby driving down gold prices.

What did Gordon Brown do after he broke his golden economic rules? He changed the rules to match the situation.

All politicians are either lying or incompetent. Gordon Brown is a major combination of the two. The sooner he is out of power the better.
 
platypus said:
In British politics you vote for the party, not it's leader.

And yes, no referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was criminal. What can we do about it?
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Yes, you are right.

Despite having right wing views, I value freedom above all. I believe that regardless of voting the party into power, given the cirumstances of Gordon's seizure of power, there should have been a referendum.
We did not get one because he wanted 'a chance' or more like to finally dust off Tony's cobwebs and do his own thing. Oh, and the fact that he would have lost by a mile (to a Tory party who are frankly useless, anyone watch that question time from Birkenhead with the two chump MP's from the Tory party?).

We can do nothing as we have become oppressed by this left wing tyranny. The left wing or socialist part is the front to keep the mugs happy and quiet and doing whatever the party prefer them to do. It is a huge shame that we have so many 'rights' yet are unable to use them properly. Also the signing over of power in that manner was nothing short of tyrannical and should be thus reviewed by a criminal court of justice. Better still get them up in the courts in the Hague for the sweet irony.

I hate seeing this place go to turd. I hate even more not being treated like an intelligent human being by the government. Worst of all, I hate having to just sit here typing about it: other than marching in the streets I cannot see any way in which we, the general electorate can manifest ourselves and our justified grievances.
 
I wish people will stop convincing themselves the tories will be better, they are both (labour and conservative, only 2 governments I have ever known) as bad as each other.
 
Exactly Voltar, we can do absolutely nothing about it because our civil liberties and rights have been slowly eroded. Which is why when one particular incident comes along like ID cards, the DNA database, or whatever, it is so irritating to see people say "well I've nothing to hide".

We have become completely powerless as a people, to effect change in the very body we elect to give us power to effect change, and yet people can't see it.
 
anticonscience said:
I wish people will stop convincing themselves the tories will be better, they are both (labour and conservative, only 2 governments I have ever known) as bad as each other.
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The grass is always greener.

I don't get why some people want a return of an 'iron lady' type person.

I would have thought they'd have learnt from last time.
 
platypus said:
Exactly Voltar, we can do absolutely nothing about it because our civil liberties and rights have been slowly eroded. Which is why when one particular incident comes along like ID cards, the DNA database, or whatever, it is so irritating to see people say "well I've nothing to hide".

We have become completely powerless as a people, to effect change in the very body we elect to give us power to effect change, and yet people can't see it.
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Yeah, but the DNA Database isn't going to get pushed through. At least I've heard nothing of it.

Hopefully the ID cards will be scrapped too.
 
Chimerical said:
The grass is always greener.

I don't get why some people want a return of an 'iron lady' type person.

I would have thought they'd have learnt from last time.
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Possibly because some people realise that although some of the changes instigated by Thatcher were painful quite a few of them were needed to modernise the economy. Unless you think going back to the 1970s working practices would be a good thing for the economy?
 
platypus said:
And yes, no referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was criminal. What can we do about it?
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As much as I agree with you what was the alternative?

Firstly let me say I'm no fan of the treaty and would probably have voted 'No' in a Referendum. However, I don't see how such a referendum could ever have been fair.

I just don't trust most of the population of this country to be able to make a rational decision on something like the Lisbon Treaty enough to be able to make an informed vote. They will instead form knee-jerk opinions on what various gutter press newspapers tell them to think or what people they know think and then vote accordingly.

I wonder what percentage of people voting in a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon would have any sort of understanding of how the EU works or would have even read the treaty?

We elect a government to make decisions on our behalf because on the whole most of the public are too stupid to comprehend such decisions themselves.

They really would have been voting on whether to accept a document they had never read.

Is that really right?
 
[TW]Fox;13279398 said:
They really would have been voting on whether to accept a document they had never read.

Is that really right?
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To be honest, for me at least, that isn't the point. The point is that they promised a referendum and then went back on it.
 
RDM said:
Possibly because some people realise that although some of the changes instigated by Thatcher were painful quite a few of them were needed to modernise the economy. Unless you think going back to the 1970s working practices would be a good thing for the economy?
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Well, I wasn't alive at the time so I can't comment via actual observation, just news records, whatever.

But a landslide victory in favour of Labour in 1997 obviously means something. What about the high unemployed figures?

Thing is, I can't really get an unbiased account of Thatcher on these forums, because most people seem pro-Tory, therefore I usually get a load of persuasive answers back.
 
Chimerical said:
Thing is, I can't really get an unbiased account of Thatcher on these forums, because most people seem pro-Tory.
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Probably because this forum has a disproportionate number of members from a middle class background and Labour is traditionally the party of the working classes (Hence the name - labour, from 'labourer').
 
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