Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread

[Grimley]

Looking on the internet, there's a bit of contention of when you begin to time an espresso shot. In my opinion, its when you flick the switch. Timing the shot at 25 seconds in considered to be a good starting point, but how much espresso you'll get out will depend on the grind, quality of the tamp, density & freshness of the beans etc.etc.etc. Loads of factors.

I went into what I thought was a top notch coffee shop by the 'walkie talkie' building in Fenchurch Street a couple of days ago, the New Black Coffee. I paid through the nose for a flat white thinking it was going to be good. it wasn't, it was too sour for my taste. I had two lovely flat whites later on that day in Silhouette & Caravan though to make up for it.

My point is even the most expensive places can fail to make good coffee (so can I on a bad day ) I've been a wannabe barista (joking aside) for a few years now (I wouldn't want to work in a coffee shop though). From what I've learned it does take a little time to practice & perfect your technique, only to run out of beans & find you have to adjust slightly to compensate with a new lot. Keeping your machine clean is probably the most important factor in making good coffee. At the end of the day, its all about taste & making small adjustments in order to achieve that goal.

 

[Raymond Lin]

3 bags out of 5 from Smokey Barn that my grinder cannot grind...if someone wants it, drop me a message. Or I'm going to bin it.

 

[Pho]

I read this post about 5 mins after grinding while waiting for the classic to warm up... I'll try 16g next time, I went with 18g as I'd already tampered it. But I did check to see if there was any imprint before I extracted and there wasn't.

I timed it this time and had 2 shot glasses with a mark on each at 1oz. It took 6 seconds before anything started to come through the portafilter and it took 20 seconds in total to extract 2oz with a thin layer of crema.

On tasting, it immediately tasted better than last night, however it left a bitter aftertaste after swallowing, so I'm still not satisfied. There are a few things to change next time, 1. 16g of beans, 2. a slightly finer grind, 3. bottled water instead of tap - trip to Tesco required, 4. Fresher beans - but that will have to wait until next week.

Question - How long should it be taking before anything starts coming through the portafilter? And is it 25 seconds from the moment I flick the switch or 25 seconds from the moment I see coffee coming through?

I've a Gaggia Classic and I've been trying to sort out my bitter tasting espressos as well. I think it's bitter, I have a truly terrible pallet .

Sourness is caused by underextraction and bitterness is caused by over-extraction so if it's bitter you should try grinding coarser or not tamping as hard, the opposite if it's sour.

Do you have kitchen scales? You should be weighing the output rather than basing it on volume. Either tare the scales with the empty glass before you pour and then weigh it after or you may be able to fit the scales where the drip tray normally sits and read it live. The rule of thumb for espresso is a beans : output ratio of 1:2 to 1:3. For example, with your 16g in you should have an output of around 32g - 48g in around 28 seconds.

This video is a great explanation of how everything ties together and how to adjust things to fix taste issues:

You asked how to tamp earlier. Watch this video from Chris Baca (his channel is worth a browse) he gives a great tip of figuring out the correct pressure.

 

[jpaul]

3 bags out of 5 from Smokey Barn that my grinder cannot grind...if someone wants it, drop me a message. Or I'm going to bin it.

so that is more than the Ethiopia Sidamdo, you referenced earlier, are they too black and oily - badly roasted ?
contact them and send them back.

I could not see a thread on Smokey Barn quality on coffeeforums.

edit:subsequently saw Sidamdo maybe a very light roast

 

[Egon]

I've a Gaggia Classic and I've been trying to sort out my bitter tasting espressos as well. I think it's bitter, I have a truly terrible pallet .

Sourness is caused by underextraction and bitterness is caused by over-extraction so if it's bitter you should try grinding coarser or not tamping as hard, the opposite if it's sour.

Do you have kitchen scales? You should be weighing the output rather than basing it on volume. Either tare the scales with the empty glass before you pour and then weigh it after or you may be able to fit the scales where the drip tray normally sits and read it live. The rule of thumb for espresso is a beans : output ratio of 1:2 to 1:3. For example, with your 16g in you should have an output of around 32g - 48g in around 28 seconds.

Interesting videos, I'll re-watch that first one again sometime and try to take a bit more in. But I've got some things to try from the 2nd, I think I might have been tamping to hard, which ties in with my results from this morning's brew.

I tried something different this morning, the purists might want to stop reading at this point But I took my pre-ground aeropress grind pack (Mocha Java) that I had from Rave. I re-ground it a little finer and tried that this morning. The difference was night and day, such a smoother drink, no bitterness and I could taste the chocolatey notes, a touch of sourness, but not enough to spoil the drink.

There were a couple of variable changes mind, I used 14g instead of 16g and I also tamped a bit lighter, both of which I'll be trying on the modern standard beans later on.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Tamping pressure makes no difference above a threshold: http://socraticcoffee.com/2015/07/the-impact-of-tamping-pressure-on-espresso-extraction/

 

[TS7]

I went to JL to have a look at the Sage machines. I've definitely ruled out getting the one I posted earlier (or any new machine for that matter). However I was seriously impressed by this with a built in grinder.

https://www.johnlewis.com/sage-by-h...ure-control-milk-jug-stainless-steel/p2267464

The footprint of the machine is so small. The photos make it look bigger. I've definitely decided on my next machine whenever the time comes but at the minute I'm happy with my EC680.

 

[TS7]

Also, Moka Pots - are these worth a go? Do they make good espresso? I was thinking for the mornings where I just want an Americano a Moka pot would be easier than turning on machine + filling it with water + tamping + cleaning out the ports filter + running hot water through the machine to clean it etc etc but if it's going to take just as long then there's no point

I have a Nespresso machine to fill this role but I've become fond of the coffee from the local roaster

 

[the-evaluator]

Moka pots make decent enough coffee but they DON'T make espresso. At a push I would say it is 'espresso style' as the water is forced through the grinds but it's definitely not an espresso.

 

[Hyburnate]

What's the best buy for £150-£300? Preferably something with a small footprint, the EC680 looks nice to be honest. Most of the time it'll be pumping a couple of shots and then steam.

 

[Jolteh]

What's the best buy for £150-£300? Preferably something with a small footprint, the EC680 looks nice to be honest. Most of the time it'll be pumping a couple of shots and then steam.

I'd say a second hand Rancilio Silvia. You can get for examples for about £200.

 

[Royal Fleet]

I posted this in the 'look what I bought thread' but thought I would also post in here. New machine

It has taken me a couple of days to get used to it. It needs a bit of dialling in of the grind, setting up the brew time etc. I still haven't got the milk right, but my morning Americano this morning was a thing of beauty. Really smooth balanced flavour with just the right amount of mouth feel. I have just about finished the first bag of 'emergency' beans which were bought from Waitrose. They had a roasted on date on them but were 6 weeks old so not that fresh. I have a bag of Coffee Factory Black bear which I should get into over the weekend, and they will be about a week old when they get into the machine.

Incidentally my wife bought me or Christmas a 1 day 'Home Enthusiast' course at the London school of coffee. This was really enjoyable although we tasted so much coffee I have only just slept properly since the course! It is worth doing if you are thinking about getting a more manual machine. Not least as you get to play all day with the real coffee shop machinery and not worry about how much you are wasting.

 

[booyaka]

great machine - had mine about 9 months. Easy to use, makes a great coffee. enjoy

 

[nst68]

Just broke my Aeropress

I went to knock out the used puck and forgot to unscrew the filter, thought the puck was stuck so I just kept hitting it and broke the plastic.

 

[jpaul]

Incidentally my wife bought me or Christmas a 1 day 'Home Enthusiast' course at the London school of coffee.

so what equipment do you get to play with ? (could not see it on their website)

I am considering attending,earlier ref'd, London Coffee festival
where :

For a small donation of just £5, visitors will spend half an hour learning how to pull the perfect espresso, amongst other impressive skills, using coffee by special guest roasters and La Marzocco’s beautiful Linea Mini domestic machine.

it would be interesting to test drive a top end grinder/machine, see what you could do, and for that matter, compare back to back consumer machines. (... and then remortgage the house)

I find the Rocky a sod to setup again because I unbolt the burrs. I don't drink much espresso so the Rocky doesn't get much use which results in grinds clumping so I need to take it apart properly to give it a thorough clean. Stepless is a very interesting idea, I may give that a try.

.. one week on the stepless mod is the best improvement I have made for years - I think grind quality has improved, through taking some small amount of play out of the top carrier, and access to 6.5 half step (for current Rave/sig) is just right, avoiding the daily dilema do I feel lucky with 6 or 7 today.

EDIT : forgot R.I.P - can you send it back due to plastic degradation under heat cycling

 

[Royal Fleet]

so what equipment do you get to play with ? (could not see it on their website)

This was my toy for the day -

 

[Hyburnate]

I'd say a second hand Rancilio Silvia. You can get for examples for about £200.

Think I'm going to break all my rules and get the Sage one above

 

[mad_allan]

ESAM4200 arrived...I'm happy! Can finally make lattes and cappuccinos at home. It seems to be a really good bit of kit.

How you finding this? It's on my shortlist at the moment. Is it easy to clean?

 

[Cosmic182]

What's the go to machine for around £300 guys?
Been eyeing up the Sage duo temp pro and the delonghi Esam 4200...

Anything else I should be looking at?

Cheers

 

[jpaul]

yes I think the pro is it (maybe with 2year extended for £15 at JL - are they transferrable)
2nd hand with a Silvia I think you would be lucky to better £250 and fixing its element can be expensive.
(owners can let it boil dry during steaming)

Strange that could buy the Pro and the separate Sage smart grinder for same as a barista, but the combo takes more space
and is less pretty ... but maybe gives flexibility.