Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread

I've been reading this thread for a while and thought I'd put in my experiences with coffee in the past 24months or so.

First off, great thread siliconslave. It's pretty much the only reason I venture into GD nowadays, and the only thread I've read without feeling like I've wasted the last 30mins of my life when I leave (with the exception of a few - burnsy's story for example (burnsy, if you read this, we need an update!)).

Anyway, around two years ago I found myself spending masses on starbucks/cafe nero/EAT/Pret/Costa coffees after moving to slap back in the middle of soho, london - I probably had 2 of each of those within a 2 min walk from my flat. It was handy, but dam expensive.

So I invested in a espresso machine - made by Krups which looked like the Krups XP4020-Expert. I was buying ground beans from anywhere and it did an ok job. I did find the pump incredibly noisy though, and it made a plasticky rattling noise which didn't fill me with confidence when I first used it.

I then found out about monmouth coffee and started buying coffee there. The difference in flavour was fantastic. They ground it in the shop at my request, and I reckon for the first 6 or 7 days after purchasing it tasted good before it started to go bitter with staleness.

Then disaster struck - I went to make an espresso and no water game through the machine (as I've now learnt, it choked). I tried a few times turning the machine on and off but it didn't want to work. Once I gave up on any water coming through I went to untwist the handle but it wouldn't budge. I had to give it a decent whack to loosen it before the whole thing detached itself from the machine so suddenly that I and the surrounding area got covered in hot, soggy, ground coffee beans.

The fineness, I think, of the monmouth grind was too small for the krups to push water through. Pressure had built up inside and when I did manage to get the handle off it came off with such an explosive force that it went everywhere.

I tried a couple more times with the monmouth coffee but it carried on choking it, and before long non-monmouth coffee began choking it too. I'm not sure how the monmouth coffee did it, but it had messed up the machine!

I took it back, and started looking for a new machine.

I had read good things about Gaggia (the classic and cubika) but in the end decided to go for the a new Dualit Espressivo, mainly for the Dualit name, and the style of the machine.

So far, so good. It feels a lot more robust than the Krups did, with a quieter pump and less rattling, and the froth is a million times better. I can now get sugar lumps to float on top of the froth, which for some reason I rarely could with the krups.

It was just after I bought this machine that I found this thread (agan, great work siliconslave), and noticed all the recommendations for grinding coffee too. The Dualit grinder seemed to be recommended by everyone as a decent budget grinder, so plumped for that just before christmas.

This has made a huge difference - and I fully support the recommendation of going for a grinder and cafetiere before any espresso machine.

I now drink coffee from this setup without sugar - something I didn't find enjoyable before.

Anyway! I'm now sipping from a latte which the espresso shot didn't look too disimilar from that YouTube video posted a few posts back.

The machine has been working great, except for a couple of chokes - again just when I use the monmouth coffee ground super fine AND tamped really solid. I have a feeling though it might only happen when I use the single shot container in the handle - this only dawned on me yesterday, and since swapping the container to the double shot (but still only putting a single shot's worth of ground coffee in) it hasn't choked (on all TWO shots I've made with it since!).

Hope some of this post (apologies for the mini-essay) might help some prospective machine-purchases out.
 
sid said:
Yes I am

i will check that place out

sid

edit/ Argh thats not open tomorrow. Any other places like that?

sid
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Ok, tastewise I recommend Whittard's Cafe Francais and obviously get them to grind it for an espresso machine. Dark roast, slightly nutty and not too harsh on the caffeine. Should give you at least some crema but like I said, it never did in the Ascaso espresso machine at work but the shot tasted almost the same to me :)

Some of Whittard's dark roasted coffees gave me a bit of a weird chemical buzz that I didn't enjoy but the Cafe Francais was good.
 
NickK said:
Video finally uploaded :D
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Hey Nick,

thanks for the video,

I've been following your workflow so far. I suppose without really touching the grind, it is difficult to say how fine it should be.

I like the way your machine drips, mine is more of a gush that is over in about 15 seconds.

Amazing crema there as well

sid
 
Yup - the grind would be difficult - I'll see if I can get a macro shot with a ruler to give you an idea of particle size compared to the millimetre.

It's taken me while to find the sweet spot and get to know the MCAL and how it reacts to grind size and freshness to get near the correct pour time. For the first few weeks with it the shots I got were just sink shots!
I'd get exactly the same 15 second gush if the grind setting isn't right (or the bean is stale/old - but I'll give hasbeen the benefit of the doubt). It only takes a 5-10 degree difference in my grinder setting wheel to go from gush to what you've seen in video.

The beans are 19 days post roast which is the reason I need to put lots of pressure on otherwise it would have gushed. I wouldn't need quite so much pressure if they were a week old. Luckily they're almost used up.

I noted someone stated they get sour shots. The rules for this are simple:

If you get sour shots - the water is too cold. You need to warm the machine and group head more - try leaving for a little longer and run some hot water through the group head before attempting the pour.

If you get bitter/burnt shots - the water is scorching the coffee and is too hot. This can be either down to the thermostat setting being too high on the machine, the group head being too hot through heat conduction through the metal from the boiler or that machine is taking too long to push the water through causing the machine to heat the water to much (if you have a heat on demand type of mechanism). Assuming the machine hasn't been left on for hours prior to the pour.
 
Thanks again.

I suppose I haven't acheived the choke atm so its either down to too coarse a grind/wrong coffee/old coffee.

Tbh I really thought that with a decent grinder, I could grind fine enough to choke it regardless
 
huppy said:
I have a feeling though it might only happen when I use the single shot container in the handle.
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Pulling singles is harder than pulling a double. This is a well known problem :D

A double will give a more intense flavour due to the additional mass of coffee. A single will give a more open flavour and allow the more subtle tastes to be present without being drowned in the intensity.

I like singles - without recocking the cylinder to draw more water in. The shot is small (about half the volume of the video) but the tastes are clearer in espresso but in a latte/cappo the coffee gets completely lost normally.
A double balances out the milk in addition to being easier to get a consistent pour. I recock the lever to add water otherwise the shot be smaller in volume.

Another thing to try, and this is odd logic, is less coffee than you'd normally use. In the video you see the tamper shoulder standing above the basket lip - this indicates to me that there's *more* coffee than I would normally put in as the shoulder and lip are normally level or ever the tamper shoulder below the lip in the case of really fresh coffee (the fluff factor is higher in fresh so although the coffee is levelled off has as the video shows when compressed it takes less space). The result is I get better pulls and tasting coffee with less.
 
sid said:
Thanks again.

I suppose I haven't acheived the choke atm so its either down to too coarse a grind/wrong coffee/old coffee.

Tbh I really thought that with a decent grinder, I could grind fine enough to choke it regardless
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I found the coffeegeek reviews for the dbm8 grinder and I'm sorry to say they don't sound favourable for making espresso.
 
Is there any way to keep ground coffee fresh for long term (2-3 months)? The only thing holding me back from spending out on a coffee machine is the fact that i would have to purchase coffee pre ground (unless i spent out and get a grinder too) online, as ive checked and there does not seem to be any places within a reasonable distance of me to go and buy it in a store. And if coffee only stays fresh for less then a month, the hassle of a monthly online order is a bit much, and i would rather buy 2 to 3 months worth of coffee and store that somehow if possible.

Or is such a thing not possible? I would like to make the move over to proper coffee, but if it only stays fresh for a short time i may as well just stick to instant.
 
sid said:
I was thinking of this one which is £124 in John Lewis

http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/kitchenaidprolinegrinder

TBH Raymond is getting better results with his blade grinder

sid

edit/ I suppose with a blade grinder, I can always grind fine enough so that it will choke and then step back from there? This is seriously annoying me now

sid
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I suppose I have not got a burr grinder is that i think i have got the hang of using my blade grinder, in terms of timing, shaking it when grinding and the pressure with the tamper. It's quite a lot of effort to pull a shot compare to instant.

I've only had it choked once, and thankfully the Gaggia Classic has a solenoid valve so when you stop the water it opens up and let the water escape.
 
I really dont know wtf to do now tbh,

The kitchenaid artisan one does look really good as well

I'm quite tempted to get that Ibertal grinder from happy donkey but I'm not sure how quickly they can dispatch tbh.

sid
 
sid said:
I really dont know wtf to do now tbh,

The kitchenaid artisan one does look really good as well

I'm quite tempted to get that Ibertal grinder from happy donkey but I'm not sure how quickly they can dispatch tbh.

sid
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True, as i am at work 5 days a week, i feel really odd having a massive box arriving at work that is not work related.

Sid, do NOT give up, i promise you that once you get it right, it is awesome, i mean it took me ages to get the hang of it, only recently my shots are looking like that. The first couple of weeks there was hardly any crema, then it was very yo-yo like.

Order some beans on on sunday, and you should get some on tuesday on your doorstep, these are what i've ordered in the past.

Bolivia Machacamarca
Brazil Cachoeira Canario
Costa Rican El Portillo CoE
Kenya Gethumbwini Peaberry
Guatemala Finca San Francisco Tecuamburro
Yemen Mokha Matrar
Has Bean Decaf Espresso Blend (for the late night)
Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira Bourbon
Has Bean premium Espresso Blend
Australian Skyberry

Some of those are twice as expensive as others and I can't really taste where the extra money went, and i still not tried Blue Mountain yet but i will probably in the next order and when i have a decent burr grinder (which i do in the Zass), just to see what the fuss is about.

I find some beans too gives more crema than others, Australian Skyberry and Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira Bourbon can give off crema even with a not so perfect grind, thus more forgiving.
 
I've spent too much money to back out now

The question about the grinder remains. Reviews are very skeptical about the kitchenaid machine.

I can always get the acaso i -mini from hasbean. That seems reasonable to me.

sid

PS -I've already ordered the beans, just need to find a way to grind them now
 
sid said:
I'm quite tempted to get that Ibertal grinder from happy donkey but I'm not sure how quickly they can dispatch tbh
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Now the Ibertal MC grinder and the Ascaso iMini will do the job! I was considering the iMini with another lever machine initially. It's a very capable grinder and I know of one person that owns one and an MCAL too.

To bring this perspective. Experts, professional Baristas all agree that the focus is on the grinder first then on the machine. You can get exceptional coffee out of a garlic press if the grinder is right. If not then you're really going to find it frustrating.
Getting filter/drip grinds out is easy, getting espresso grind isn't and getting an adjustable espresso grind is exceptionally important as it needs to be tuned to your machine and to a far lesser extent the bean.

Now I'm not saying that you can't make espresso with a blade grinder after blitzing it for half a minute however it's likely that the grounds will heat up (loosing taste due to evaporation). You will need to learn how long it takes too.

I agree with Raymond - don't give up. I will be honest, you will have frustration and learning todo as you get the grinder setup right for your machine. Then it will start to click and you will forget the fuss.

Of the coffees that Raymond has listed there are two that I've tried. Both good coffee, although until you get used to the machine and develop a taste for the differences in coffee I'd hold fire on the Bolivia (£7) and look at the Skyberry (£3-4) along with other coffees from around the world - they all have different tastes (you'd notice this especially if you start making americanos as the flavour is not as intense).
 
Dist said:
Is there any way to keep ground coffee fresh for long term (2-3 months)? The only thing holding me back from spending out on a coffee machine is the fact that i would have to purchase coffee pre ground (unless i spent out and get a grinder too) online, as ive checked and there does not seem to be any places within a reasonable distance of me to go and buy it in a store. And if coffee only stays fresh for less then a month, the hassle of a monthly online order is a bit much, and i would rather buy 2 to 3 months worth of coffee and store that somehow if possible.

Or is such a thing not possible? I would like to make the move over to proper coffee, but if it only stays fresh for a short time i may as well just stick to instant.
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As a rule..
12 minutes for ground before it starts it's downward spiral in a cool environment. The feel between just ground and day old is very definite. Fresh will be fluffy, soft and doesn't feel dry. Day old stale feels hard, dry like sand between the fingers.

12 weeks for roasted beans if kept in sealed bag. I'll get a maximum of 4 weeks before the has to be so hard and the MCAL gushes or chokes with a fine line between for making espresso.

12-16 months - for green beans. I've never roasted my own so I can't comment on this.


My last but one order from hasbeen was 7x250g bags of roasted beans. The package arrived, was opened and immediately six bags went into the deep freeze. These has been roasted the day before and hadn't even finished producing the CO2 (known as degassing) from the cells of the bean post roast.
I have just taken one of the two remaining bags from that batch out and the degassing that slowed during the freeze has just mildly puffed the bag. I'll leave the bag for the rest of the day to warm up naturally before I open it and move the beans to re-sealable airtight boxes.

So yes if you have beans you can store them. If you drink daily then it's not a problem to have the beans in a box ready to grind when you want coffee. Infact it takes longer for the espresso machine or kettle to warm up than it does to grind the coffee.

The problem with some stores are the beans aren't that fresh. Starbucks - their beans have been sat in the small 250g bags for weeks if not months. Supermarkets are even worse.
Independent roasters such as hasbeen, fourmile etc all roast and ship. Often the same day too.

Just remember the coffee taste you drink comes from the beans, so regardless of the equipment you have if you feed it with rubbish you'll just get a festering cup of putrid juice out..
To me you don't have to go nuts on the beans - drinking single shot americanos will use the least amount of beans give a mellow taste which will make you think that instant is just a taste of chemicals thrown together.
 
sid said:
PS -I've already ordered the beans, just need to find a way to grind them now
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You'll probably get them Tuesday. If you've not got a grinder - just put them in the deep freeze or ice box. When your grinder arrives, buy some tinned beans from the supermarket and use those to dial in to the grind size. This will give you the ball park without wasting your good beans. It may take an evening or two..
Then when you're ready take the good beans out of the freeze, let them warm up in the unopened pack to room temp and then open. Move the beans to a resealable airtight container and then use as you need them :)
 
Jonny69 said:
By the way Nick, that's some serious shakey hand you've got in that video. What was that, take 10 or something, drinking the coffee after each take? :D
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Getting a bit hypo (was about to go out and get some food) I think in addition to some nerves.. brain surgeon material :D
 
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